Included in Build Ingame Explanation of Nation Relations

[Grey Roger]

A reputation hit, served nation to Pirate and losing ALL your LoMs sounds about right to me.
I like your idea of any companion mutinying if you have a LoM/are a professional navy officer.

That may be a nice idea but it wasn't my idea. I was thinking that your own ship mutinies - as I said, your own first officer wants to bring you to justice. Note that this only applies if you have a single LoM, whether naval officer or not - you have a Served Nation, your officers and crew expect to serve that nation, and now you've just turned rogue. If you have multiple LoM's then you're already a sort of rogue but are trying to maintain some level of respectability. More to the point, if the mutiny is successful then you could be teleported to a governor of the Served Nation and formally stripped of your LoM (and dishonourably discharged from the navy, if you were a naval officer). This won't work too well if you don't have a Served Nation (or if it's Personal). But morale could drop and potentially trigger a mutiny because you're no longer the respectable rogue the crew and officers thought they were joining.

On another note: The question of a simplified system for lower difficulties/Arcade Game Mode still stands.

Or control it with a toggle - that was also part of the question. You don't like toggles, but they're nice for players as they allow the player to set the game the way he wants to play it. Otherwise it does make sense to disable this in Arcade mode as that's supposed to be a generally simpler and more casual style of gameplay, though an answer from someone who plays Arcade mode would be more valid than mine.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

That may be a nice idea but it wasn't my idea. I was thinking that your own ship mutinies - as I said, your own first officer wants to bring you to justice. Note that this only applies if you have a single LoM, whether naval officer or not - you have a Served Nation, your officers and crew expect to serve that nation, and now you've just turned rogue. If you have multiple LoM's then you're already a sort of rogue but are trying to maintain some level of respectability. More to the point, if the mutiny is successful then you could be teleported to a governor of the Served Nation and formally stripped of your LoM (and dishonourably discharged from the navy, if you were a naval officer). This won't work too well if you don't have a Served Nation (or if it's Personal). But morale could drop and potentially trigger a mutiny because you're no longer the respectable rogue the crew and officers thought they were joining.

If you don't have a served nation, then that shouldn't happen anyway if I understand correctly.

I thought you meant having your companion ships turn on you, but on second thought that probably doesn't make a great deal of sense.
Perhaps an own ship mutiny would be possible, though with the current system, either you die or you win.

Or control it with a toggle - that was also part of the question. You don't like toggles, but they're nice for players as they allow the player to set the game the way he wants to play it. Otherwise it does make sense to disable this in Arcade mode as that's supposed to be a generally simpler and more casual style of gameplay, though an answer from someone who plays Arcade mode would be more valid than mine.

I was indeed hoping for feedback from an Arcade player. Everything is possible there, but I need to know what would be appreciated.
Probably we'll find out soon enough once the complex, realistic system is fully operational.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

I'm really quite fed up of fighting with the nations relations code, so am not at all looking forward to adding in any explanations about it in the game.
So I'll definitely NOT get started on it until this modification is fully tested and agreed OK by the community.

In the meantime, what would you guys reckon is the least we should do to make this clear to the players?
My personal idea is to just add the details in the "Build Info.txt" file for the time being as that would definitely require the least amount of effort in my part.

Of course I'd always welcome other people figuring out the explanation thing....

 

[Grey Roger]

The same explanation as you're planning to put into "BuildInfo.txt" could probably go into a book, "Articles of War". If you start as a Naval Officer or Corsair then you get this right away; if you buy a LoM or join a navy and don't already have the book then you get it. The introductory dialog (or dialog from the governor) can tell you simply to read the "Articles of War". Everyone else can have a single line added to the introductory dialog saying something like "We're not a warship. We can defend ourselves if we're attacked, but if we attack first then we'll be regarded as pirates".

The exact consequences of doing something naughty, e.g. attacking when you're not a warship or firing on a friendly ship, are for the player to find out the hard way if he does it. The "Articles of War" can say that you'll be regarded as a traitor of the worst sort if you attack a friendly ship while flying a friendly flag; it doesn't need to elaborate on exactly what will happen to you if you do.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

All good ideas.

(Now I want to call the book "War and Peace".... )

 

[Levis]

Adding a book is an good idea. I like the reference by calling it articles of war

 

[pedrwyth]

There is also the loading screen hints system, if someone makes the extra texture files for incorporation - once suitable text is agreed??

 

[Pieter Boelen]

We'd need someone to make those files. But definitely sums hints might be useful too.
Something like:
"Be careful who you attack at sea and under what flag. If you have no legit reason, it may be seen as an act of Piracy with all the consequences that come with it."

 

[Pieter Boelen]

I've just written some code to give you the book that was suggested above:

Now some questions on how to treat this book:
- If you didn't already have it, you'll get it upon any promotion
- Since some players may not get a LoM/join the navy, you'll also get it when you say "I'm interested about relations" to the governors
- As I did not set the price to 0, you won't get the sound to let you know you got it; should that perhaps be done?
- Should it be possible to find this at random/buy it from stores/sell it?

I have yet to figure out the text to go in there. It has to be short and concise, of course.

 

[Grey Roger]

The Articles of War are specifically rules for the military. The original Articles were written for the Royal Navy, the British Army got their own version, and other navies and armies probably had something similar.

Those who don't get a LoM or join the navy don't need to know military codes of conduct. They just need to know that if they attack anyone who didn't attack them first then they're pirates. So there's no need for them to get the book from a governor. A merchant's main concern about relations is who is at war with his country, therefore whose ports and ships he needs to avoid.

And pirate characters, whether by original choice or by becoming pirates due to misconduct, don't much care about rules anyway.

That said, the book could perhaps be available for sale. Either make it rare because some retired officer sold his copy, or make it common because the government wants people to know how its navy is expected to behave and so puts out plenty of copies for sale.

 

[Levis]

We need some more book sprites soon . But that can wait till its more improved .

I think the book can be for sale but make it rare indeed.
I think you should only get it when getting a LoM etc. Else you can just buy it in the store .

 

[Pieter Boelen]

The Articles of War are specifically rules for the military. The original Articles were written for the Royal Navy, the British Army got their own version, and other navies and armies probably had something similar.

Those who don't get a LoM or join the navy don't need to know military codes of conduct. They just need to know that if they attack anyone who didn't attack them first then they're pirates. So there's no need for them to get the book from a governor. A merchant's main concern about relations is who is at war with his country, therefore whose ports and ships he needs to avoid.

And pirate characters, whether by original choice or by becoming pirates due to misconduct, don't much care about rules anyway.

That said, the book could perhaps be available for sale. Either make it rare because some retired officer sold his copy, or make it common because the government wants people to know how its navy is expected to behave and so puts out plenty of copies for sale.

As far as I'm concerned, the book will be more about a general explanation of everything players need to know about the system.
Part of that relates to what is considered an act of piracy and which ones are large and minor.
And part of it is how nation relations affect the points you get. That second part applies only to navy officers and privateers, but the first part applies to everyone.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

This is what I've written for the book now:

Hostility at Sea:

Forts and ships at sea may be hostile to you for any of the following reasons:
- They are hostile to the nation whose flag you're flying
- They are hostile to you personally and have recognized you flying a false flag
- They remember you being hostile from a previous encounter
- You have deliberately opened fire upon them

Deliberately firing on friendly ships or accidentally hitting them reduces your reputation.

-----------------------------------------

Acts of Piracy:

An act of piracy may occur if you capture or sink any non-pirate ships. The following are considered as such by the civilized nations of the world and are listed in order of severity:
- You had no Letter of Marque or navy commission and therefore no legal reason for the attack
- You were flying a pirate flag
- You attacked a nation you were neutral or friendly with
- You were flying a flag friendly to the ship you attacked

Depending on the severity of your actions, you may be recognized as a traitor in non-pirate towns. For small acts of piracy, this may take a while. But for the larger acts of piracy, this can be immediate and cause nations to turn hostile to you.

It is always possible to hoist another flag in battle, which could mean the difference between your actions being considered legal or a major act of piracy. It serves to be careful especially when being recognized for flying a false flag.

-----------------------------------------

International Relations:

Gaining points with any nation requires joining their ranks as a privateer or navy officer or joining the Pirate Brotherhood. As long as you serve a single nation, your own relations are tied to that nation. While you can join as many nations as you wish at the same time, this does reduce the points you gain from your actions.

The nations of the world object to any actions against their allies. It is therefore important to keep up-to-date with the tavern news. This may become especially complicated if you serve multiple nations at the same time.

Any comments, questions or suggestions would be welcome.

I'm still wondering if it is more important to have the quest item sound to notify the player that he/she got it OR to have it available from stores instead.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

First version of the Relations Book now included in here: http://www.piratesahoy.net/threads/build-14-beta-4-internal-wip-for-testing.25696/

All feedback would be appreciated so we can get this as clear as possible for the impending public release.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

So the explanation book has been in the game for two weeks now or so.
Any comments? Do you get it when you think you should? Do you notice that you get it? Are the contents clear enough or is there still any confusion?
And once you have it, does it annoy you that you can't get rid of it? I'd appreciate some feedback here!

 

[Pieter Boelen]

So did anyone actually notice that explanation book for this in the game?
Does that actually help?

I noticed a fair few queries on the forum about the new behaviour, which was to be expected.
But if you guys can't figure it out from the game, clearly it isn't clear enough for players.
So what needs to be expanded on to improve that?

 

[Grey Roger]

Perhaps you could have two or three books? One, maybe titled "Maritime Law" or "Laws of the Sea", can cover what all players need to know - reasons for hostility, definitions of piracy. The bit about international relations doesn't need to go here because unless you're navy or privateer, you shouldn't be attacking anyone else anyway. This one can be for sale (or possibly in the Turks Island library).

The other book could be "Articles of War", specifically for naval and privateers, and given to you when you get a LoM, join a navy, or if you start the game as a naval officer or corsair. This one could contain the details of international relations as well as tell you what percentage of value of a prize ship you will receive.

"Articles of War" should not really mention joining the Pirate Brotherhood - perhaps have a "Pirates' Manual" or similar which will go into more detail about how you become a pirate, how to join the Brotherhood etc., to be available either at the Turks Island library or for sale from sneaky traders.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Perhaps you could have two or three books? One, maybe titled "Maritime Law" or "Laws of the Sea", can cover what all players need to know - reasons for hostility, definitions of piracy. The bit about international relations doesn't need to go here because unless you're navy or privateer, you shouldn't be attacking anyone else anyway.

Perhaps not; but it is only two short lines so I'm not sure it is worth the trouble of making a separate one for it.
I'm wondering mainly if players notice the book AT ALL, whether they read it and if it is actually clear enough in content.

 

[Talisman]

So did anyone actually notice that explanation book for this in the game?
Does that actually help?

I noticed a fair few queries on the forum about the new behaviour, which was to be expected.
But if you guys can't figure it out from the game, clearly it isn't clear enough for players.
So what needs to be expanded on to improve that?

Got the book when I was given a LoM at the end of the Sea Hawk story.

Personally I think it should be given either automatically when they start the game (like the archipeligo map or when they get the map in a Story ) or the first time they talk to any Governor or Diplomat.

The sooner they get the book and are told to read it - the earlier in their game they will understand the new system and so there should be fewer queries.


Also when getting the book I got these entries in the system.log - don't know if they are connected

Can't load texture resource\textures\.tx
Can't load texture resource\textures\.tx
Can't load texture resource\textures\.tx
Can't load texture resource\textures\.tx
Not used node name:"BOOKTITLE" from IniFile:"RESOURCE\INI\NEW_INTERFACES\book.ini"   <<<----- THIS
Can't load texture resource\textures\.tx
Can't load texture resource\textures\.tx
Can't load texture resource\textures\.tx
Can't load texture resource\textures\.tx

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Got the book when I was given a LoM at the end of the Sea Hawk story.

Personally I think it should be given either automatically when they start the game (like the archipeligo map or when they get the map in a Story ) or the first time they talk to any Governor or Diplomat.

There are currently two ways to get it:
1. When you get a LoM
2. When you ask any governor or diplomat about International Relations

That second option is available to everyone from the start of the game, of course.
But I doubt anyone ever cares enough to press that, because of course it tells you nothing that the Nations Relations Interface doesn't already do.
Would be nice to link that to some explanatory dialog instead, but even then players still aren't going to be choosing that option, are they?

Maybe if I change the initial text so that players familiar with the game will actually notice it is different?
Other option might be to have the book available for purchase; at least then it may show up in an interface players will often look at.

Also when getting the book I got these entries in the system.log - don't know if they are connected

Can't load texture resource\textures\.tx
Can't load texture resource\textures\.tx
Can't load texture resource\textures\.tx
Can't load texture resource\textures\.tx
Not used node name:"BOOKTITLE" from IniFile:"RESOURCE\INI\NEW_INTERFACES\book.ini"   <<<----- THIS
Can't load texture resource\textures\.tx
Can't load texture resource\textures\.tx
Can't load texture resource\textures\.tx
Can't load texture resource\textures\.tx

That applies to all other books too, right? Looks like indeed that goes completely unused. I'll remove it right now.
@Levis, can you confirm that I can safely get rid of that?