POTC Sea Colour

[Hylie Pistof]

I don't know what to think. Some things are better and some things are.....different.

Up close, does it look oily? Sun reflections are nice though. I haven't been in a storm yet and want to see how it looks there. I have always been unhappy with the water in storms in build 14.

 

[Peter Blood]

Honestly, I have always found the ocean to look rather oily up close.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Have you been unhappy with the water in storms in ALL Build 14 Beta releases? Before Beta 2, for a while we had the Build 13 look for the storms.

 

[Hylie Pistof]

Build 14 storms have always been puny things with slick looking water. Only at night do they look ok.

Look at this b13 storm. If you look closely you can tell by the raging bull that it is the biggest ship in b13. Then compare that to a b14 storm.

 

[Post Captain]

I've never found it to be quite that oily in the Caribbean, although I'll admit that I've only experienced about a week in the region. The water there a few miles out is generally an extremely deep blue and a bit rougher (waves less smooth) than what I'm seeing here.
The pictures that have been posted look a lot more like how you would perceive the ocean at a great distance, close to the horizon.
From experience, the waves in a gale should be incredibly rough with foam and whitecaps. (I have some pictures I can upload later, if you like, that demonstrate this point.)

 

[Armada]

I don't know what to think. Some things are better and some things are.....different.

Up close, does it look oily? Sun reflections are nice though.

You might be right about the oily appearance. I think that can be reduced by lowering the actual reflectiveness of the water, but I'm not sure.
It shouldn't affect the sun reflections, hopefully, since they're determined separately.

Build 14 storms have always been puny things with slick looking water. Only at night do they look ok.

Look at this b13 storm. If you look closely you can tell by the raging bull that it is the biggest ship in b13. Then compare that to a b14 storm.

So basically we need a darker sky, more fog, and huge waves, right?
Luckily I have a back-up of the Build 13 files, so I'll have a look for the storm settings... :mm

The pictures that have been posted look a lot more like how you would perceive the ocean at a great distance, close to the horizon.
From experience, the waves in a gale should be incredibly rough with foam and whitecaps. (I have some pictures I can upload later, if you like, that demonstrate this point.)

I know what you mean about the perceived distance, but I don't know if there's anything that can be done about it.
The game engine is fairly restricted, and while we can get white foam floating on the sea, we can't get proper whitecaps.
All we can do is try to get the best out of the engine we have, for now. That's the purpose of my experiments.

Still, some good reference pictures would be much appreciated, so we can at least have something to compare with.

 

[Hylie Pistof]

Is it possible to reshape the storm waves? Now they are just big smooth rollers. It would be nice if they came to a peak.

 

[Armada]

I believe so. I think it has to do with the 'harmonics' set in WhrGeneration.c.
I checked them against the Build 13 storm settings, and there used to be ten of these harmonics settings, but now seven have been commented out.

 

[Armada]

It seems the reflectivity doesn't change the oily appearance, but changing the Fresnel Coefficient way up to 0.9 does.
This seems to make the waves appear more smooth, and reduces the intensity of the reflections (except the sun reflection).
Now I can't decide which is better...

Here's two images to compare; the first is with a low FC, and the second is with a high FC:

Spoiler

Spoiler

Judging by these images, I'm thinking a higher FC is better for rougher seas, but a lower FC is better for very calm seas, with the lowest setting reserved for almost-still water.
Trouble is, I'm not sure how to make the value dependent on the shape of the waves.

 

[Post Captain]

I might as well give you what I have to demonstrate various conditions:

Spoiler

High wind, almost no swell (because of the island)

Low wind, low swell:

Dead Calm, swell blocked by island: (demonstrating reflective qualities, as well)

And a bonus: Medium swells, high wind in glorious 1080p

All of these were taken by me off the northern Channel Islands, Southern California. Unfortunately, I couldn't get a picture of high winds and high swells, since the water coming over the rail would have destroyed my one good camera.

I think Armada's second screenshot looks a tiny bit more like the offshore swells in the northern Caribbean.

 

[Armada]

Those are some excellent photos! I was surprised to see that the last photo looks remarkably similar to the game, in the same conditions.
That video will also come in handy, as I'm seeing what effect changing the animation speed has on the water.

 

[Post Captain]

Just a thought... Maybe making the water a tiny bit darker might help create the illusion of less reflectivity. I have no idea how long that would take, but if it's no too long it may be worth a try. The water in the deep regions of the Caribbean is an incredibly dark shade of pure blue, in my experience.

When referencing the video, keep in mind that I'm also moving approximately perpendicular to the waves at 8.5 knots. I'll see if I also have some videos where we're moving slower, if that'll help.

Edit: I found two very useful (and stable) videos that I'll put on you tube tomorrow. One was taken minutes after the first picture I posted, and another was taken about an hour before the last picture.

 

[Armada]

I was actually thinking of darkening the water after seeing your photos, anyway. The colour is determined using RGB (Red, Green, Blue) format, so is very easy to change.
Ironically, it sounds like a step back to the game's original blue colour, but hopefully it should look better with the other improved effects.

More videos would be most welcome. The more references we have, the better!

 

[Post Captain]

Here are two more of my videos from last year I managed to dig up; they might be helpful.

The conditions in the above video are identical to those in the first picture I posted previously, and the conditions in the below video are the same as the last picture I posted. The hair probably belongs to my dog. I'm moving at about five knots at a 45 degree angle to the waves in the first video, stationary in the second. There are usually always swells in open ocean, even without wind. We just happened to be behind a long chain of islands.

 

[Post Captain]

The more the merrier, I suppose. I happened to pull my phone out after finishing my volunteer work on Pilgrim last Saturday.

The water's just a tiny bit more brown than usual due to the sediment stirred up by a few recent storms.

 

[Armada]

After some more experimentation, I think I've now settled on a nice shade of blue (RGB 0,35,90, instead of 25,55,80) and an FC of 0.3, for the best effect.
See the files below if you want to test it out. Again, it's best to see it first hand.

View attachment BattleInterface.c
[goes in PROGRAM -> BATTLE_INTERFACE]
View attachment WhrInitValues.c
[goes in PROGRAM -> Weather -> Init]
Press F11 in a savegame for the changes to take effect.

As for storms, I seem to have had some limited success.
Re-enabling the out-commented harmonics seems to have produced a much better wave model, which is far more realistic than continuous 'rollers'.
However, once you encounter one storm, this wave model seems to stick around permanently, albeit much less choppy in calm weather.
Not sure why this happens, but in a way, I kind of prefer it. The waves are just so much more lifelike that the whole experience feels more immersive, to me.

Also, I have tried and seemingly failed to introduce the Build 13 fog effects. Again, not sure what I've done wrong.
Here's the code from PROGRAM -> Weather -> WhrGeneration.c which includes the fog and harmonics:

{
// screwface
if(bSeaActive && !ownDeckStarted())
{
iStormLockSeconds = 60;
Seafoam.storm = "true";
//bstorm = true;
// Build 13 fog - Armada -> (not working?)
Weathers.Fog.Enable = true;
Weathers.Fog.Height = 500.0;
Weathers.Fog.Start = 0.0;
Weathers.Fog.Density = 0.500;
Weathers.Fog.SeaDensity = 0.019;
Weathers.Fog.Color = argb(0,33,40,50);
// Build 13 fog - Armada <-
Weathers.Sea.Sky.Color = argb(0,255,255,255);
//Weathers.Sea.Water.Color = argb(0,0,0,10);
//Weathers.Sea.Pena.Color = argb(0,100,100,100);
//Weathers.Sea.Bump.Tile = 0.07;
Weathers.Sea.Bump.Ang = 2.0;
Weathers.Sea.Bump.Speed = 0.01;
Weathers.Sea.Bump.AnimSpeed = 23.0;
Weathers.Sea.Bump.Scale = 2.0;
Weathers.Sea.Harmonics.h1 = "0.0,10.0,0.1202,80.87,-68.00";
Weathers.Sea.Harmonics.h2 = "1.57,10.0,2.1002,82.28,88.00";
Weathers.Sea.Harmonics.h3 = "0.47,7.0,2.2002,82.28,68.00";
Weathers.Sea.Harmonics.h4 = "0.27,47.0,0.0502,82.28,288.00"; // h4 to h10 were initially commented out in B14 Beta 2.1
Weathers.Sea.Harmonics.h5 = "1.27,57.0,0.0702,82.28,188.00"; // Harmonics persist after first storm encounter, but give more realistic effects.
Weathers.Sea.Harmonics.h6 = "2.27,57.0,0.0302,82.28,88.00";
Weathers.Sea.Harmonics.h7 = "2.27,37.0,0.1402,82.28,188.00";
Weathers.Sea.Harmonics.h8 = "2.77,17.0,0.0502,82.28,288.00";
Weathers.Sea.Harmonics.h9 = "1.77,17.0,0.1002,82.28,188.00";
Weathers.Sea.Harmonics.h10 = "1.0,14.0,0.5002,82.28,28.00"; //

 

[Pieter Boelen]

What happens if you set the fog to a ridiculous value? Does it get foggy then?

 

[Hylie Pistof]

Last night I got excited and will now spam this thread.

First off the game I have been playing died. Something about a memory allocation error. But the install is still good as I started a new game. :mi So I did. Played the tutorial and sailed away.

Got caught in a storm, but stopped playing that game there so did not notice the new waves.

Then started a game in another install and found meself in the Endeavour. That is quite a jump from a Lugger! Did a little sailing around and took some screenies.

I can't say you should do this or that, but I can say that overall this is better. There seems to be more contrast and the white water around the shore stands out better. And the water itself sure is blue.

Anyway, the screenies show me sailing away in the afternoon and in a storm. Then there is a late afternoon shot, a night shot, and then the next morning. Overall, this is a good step in the right direction. :warr

 

[Armada]

What happens if you set the fog to a ridiculous value? Does it get foggy then?

Doesn't seem to have any effect whatsoever.
Anyway, I've since ditched that fog code and instead used a different approach - this time with some good results!
This is from further up in WhrGeneration.c:

if(bWhrStorm){
wRain = 95;
winds = 25;
windBallast = 10;
rainBallast = 10;
fog = 75; //Armada
Weathers.Fog.Color = argb(0,33,40,50);
bWeatherIsStorm = true; // screwface
}
if(bWhrTornado){
wRain = 100;
winds = 30;
windBallast = 20;
rainBallast = 20;
fog = 75; //Armada
Weathers.Fog.Color = argb(0,33,40,50);
}

Apparently 'fog = 80' has the same effect as the Isla de Muerte fog, so this is just slightly less dense.
The results look pretty good, I'd say:

The first shot is around midnight, and the second is nearly 9:00 in the morning. It's not the same as Build 13, but it seems to work well.
The only slight problem is that the fog usually persists immediately after a storm (but goes after next reload), and during the day it feels like being near Isla de Muerte. Any way to counter this?

Here's the whole file for those who want to see the improved storms for themselves [goes in PROGRAM -> Weather]:
View attachment WhrGeneration.c

I can't say you should do this or that, but I can say that overall this is better. There seems to be more contrast and the white water around the shore stands out better. And the water itself sure is blue.

Anyway, the screenies show me sailing away in the afternoon and in a storm. Then there is a late afternoon shot, a night shot, and then the next morning. Overall, this is a good step in the right direction. :warr

That's good to hear! I definitely feel we're pretty close to perfecting the settings now.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

That does look better! I think I see the problem though: the fog value is set to 80, but never reset again after the storm. We'd have to add a reset there somewhere.
Even better would be if it would gradually get better. Would need some thinking on how to do that. Would you mind reminding me in two weeks and I'll see what I can figure out?