Realistic Cannon Fix mod

[Luke159]

Ah my bad, i thourght it was 92Ibs and i thourght it was the stern oh well at least i got the amount of cannons right. :

Yes you are right for example the English could fire load and fire there cannons twice compared to the French who at the time of the battle of Trafaglar hadn't been able to do any pracising due to there confined space. Not sure how good the Spanish was at loading there cannons i expect they was just as quick as the English because the Spanish would stand and fight while the French was expected to aim at the rigging and either slow the enemy ship(s) down or stop them by destroying a mast or two then sail away avaioding the battle and they tried the same actic at the battle of Trafaglar (i've watched a few documentries on that battle and possible reasons to why the French lost) while the French was expected to hit the sails the English and Spanish would fire deverstating broadsides into there enemies hull's. So having 12Ibs cannons compared to 32Ibs cannons makes sense in some way's however its not just the rate of shots we have to look at its the fact that 12Ibs would most probably bounce off the warships hull's, if they hit from the stern then obviously they would penetrate the ships hull#s but broadside to broadside smaller cannons wasn't as effective, thats one of the reasons they pirates used them. There business was getting whats in the ships so sinking the ships wasn't there aim however they needed to be able to scare there enemy so mounting more cannons then originally was on the ship made up for there lack on powerfull cannons.

Here's an example, ship A has 30, 16 pounder cannons while ship B has 30, 32pounder cannons, ship A can reload and fire two broadsides by the time ship B has loaded and fired 1 broadside. However ship A's cannons maybe faster at reloading they are not capable of penetrating the ships hull while a broadside from ship B is deadly. So it all veries on ships and there classes. This is why i wanted the lower calibure of cannon to have very little effect on large warships or high class ships, because thats how it would have been back in the then.

 

[modernknight1]

Good example! I think you've got it about right in Real Time Battle Light (RTBL)> I just like Naxarass's idea of having accurate rates of fire as well. I'd love to see a graduated matrix that took into account crew training combined with gun handling by type of gun. That'd be interesting and I'm attempted to give it a whirl, but I want to play the game now.

MK

 

[nixarass]

Hey dudes now that you are talking about guns, maybe we should do somekind of gun's mod?


Going through ini files i have seen there are actually three types of guns: culverines , cannon and MORTARS

If i understand well Mortars are not implemented ingame and are something like bombards (shrt range big caliber short cannon aimed at shooting deadly buckshots on a ship personal at very short range) somekind of huge buckshot cannon with no range that were used in late naval battles of history (arround 1800 i think).

That's what the 92s cnnons were supposed to be if you ask me. I remember seing somewhere in the codes the 92 number associated to "mortar" type guns. Maybe we should try reenabling it and see how it handle what do you think? :will

 

[Luke159]

The Mortar is the 92IBs cannon, i went the long way and added my own 92Ibs lol, but it wouldn't be hard to unlock the mortar. i'm thinking of adding the 4Ibs and i've increased the costs of the cannons, well you have nothing to spend your hard and sometimes easily earnt piasters so the more things to spend your money on the better. I've also edited the weight of the cannons so that smaller ships can mount say 24Ibs but at a big cost which is they loose most of there cargo space hence another reason why pirates used small calibure cannons so that they had as much free space for cargo as they could find.

but anyway thats part of the RTBL mod i'm working on, but i do think there should be more cannon calibures, and yes there are three different types of cannon aswell, bronz, silver and no i don't think the other was gold, its part of the what was going to be online feature of upgrading your cannons. A shame that online feature was never made live because this would have been anamazing game for online gaming, maybe one day this or another pirate rpg game will have an online feature and not like pirates of the burning sea which you have to pay for since that just takes the p**s FSX is a simulation game for flying aircrafts and you don't have to pay to go online and its hugly popular.

Anyway if we know which are the most common cannon calibures they used back in the age of piracy then we would have a better way to implement the right cannons. I think personally 4Ibs is a must i don't think the 68Ibs is a good idea since the ships back then would never have carried many of them due to there weight and reloading times etc.

 

[modernknight1]

OK mates, now that makes total sense. A 92 lbs mortar is realistic. But rigging would be in the way and you could only effectively mount one or two. We need a bomb ketch. Makes me wonder if we could look at importing any ships from Empire Total War. Is that doable? I want to look at the ETW code now. COOL :will

92s would have been middle sized actually as mortars go. 180 pounders were not unrealistic. Interestingly enough, while the French are often given credit for the invention, it was really the Dutch that learned to use them and refine the designs for effective use in 17th/18th century warfare. The famous Dutch commander Menno van Coehoorn used mortars of his own designs very effectively against the French. A lot of people don't realize that the Dutch actually went on the offensive against the French (even invading France - Battle of Senniffe) during the 1670s and used mortars very effectively.

I love Nixarass's idea of a comprehensive cannon mod. I'm totally in if we take our time and research and test it right.

MK

 

[nixarass]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Seneffe

Wow, did never heard about that battle. One of those numerous battles that proves how tactics are stronger than numbers.


Talking about ETW: well i think naval battle of this game are better done and more realist than sea mode of Aop2. A shame they don't turn it into a rpg pirate game, otherwise we probably would have the best pirate game ever, graphics-wise.

Actually i'm quite a fan of all total war games, from rome total war to the next we'll get: Napoleon Total war.

Realist, beautiful...

These are the best strategy games ever if you ask me

And the naval battle parts of empire total war are just...almost unbelievable

look at this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=geTBcZ7BM5U

have you ever seen something more realistic?
Potbs looks like crap compared to this.


About modding. Yes there are quite much modding tools for total war games, probably the 3D models would be usable in 3DSmax to export them to Aop2, but i see two problems: First the TW specific animations that are not the same than AoP2 animations. That would need much work to be adapted.

Then the copyright issue. I think you are not authorised to use their material for another game as it's a copyrighted under selling game.

 

[modernknight1]

Yeah you're right Naxarass, I wish we could get at those models. I had a look at what I could. Steam really limits what you can look at or use. :? I saw nothing we could use. Wouldn't it be great to get those ships though. There's some really great music in ETW that would go great in POTC/COAS as well.

I am a huge fan of ETW as well. The only games I'm playing and have been playing since August are COAS, POTC, ETW, and Medeival Total War II (Deus Lo Vult 6.0). Don't see this changing until someone offers something new thats really exceptional.

MK

 

[nixarass]

Yeah you're right Naxarass, I wish we could get at those models. I had a look at what I could. Steam really limits what you can look at or use. :? I saw nothing we could use. Wouldn't it be great to get those ships though. There's some really great music in ETW that would go great in POTC/COAS as well.

oh... I have the normal release game so i can look into it deeply whenever i want, an yes think much stuff of this game is worthy. I don't know anything of Aop2 modelling and ship animaion but i guess it's not different from other games, so when i finnish what i'm doing currently and get enough motivation, i will look into ETW ship models to see how they work.
The sea too... it's almost real. Unfortunately the sea isn't exportable i think (without redoing totally the game lol)

I am a huge fan of ETW as well. The only games I'm playing and have been playing since August are COAS, POTC, ETW, and Medeival Total War II (Deus Lo Vult 6.0). Don't see this changing until someone offers something new thats really exceptional.

MK

You are not far from me lol The only games i play are caos (before it was seadogs serie) Total war games (M2TW the most) and Wings over europe/ strike fighters 2 which is an enormous community game about flight smulation. Basic game has 5-6 planes but when you go to combatace.com you can download hundreds of planes from WW1 biplanes to nowadays F22 or B52. I have also modded for that game.

And i stick to these games only because i prefer games in which you tweak as you wish and get constantly free stuff from community rather than big commercial games. :

 

[Luke159]

I must be a sad b*****d then because i only play COAS. : the modding part takes most of my free time because the testing isn't to bad. I'm looking forward to actually been able to sit and play the game one day without thinking i need to test this and that and edit that, once the waterlines are done i can relax a little and the ship thats coursing the game to crash however i did find a typo in the scripts file by me which was with a ship been generated at rank 8 which is when the problem started, so it could have been that ship, i could enter battl;es with all other ships but the pirate ship that was chasing me so i knew it wasn't a big problem but it was a problem that needed addressing. Right now i'm testing the higher ranks ships trying to see them in battle i've seen most ships and reset the Privateer from a class 3 to class 4 because she only had 22 cannons and it didn't make sense for that ship to be a class 3 ship. The Schooner Xebec has also been lowered to a class 4 ship from class 3 for the same reason.

 

[modernknight1]

Mates, I predominantly play COAS, but like a change of pace every so often. It would be exciting if you could get at that code Nixarass. I found a ship file under Resource in ETW, but can't read any of the ship files. They don't even have names. Thought this was a Steam limitation.

Luke, Did you find the offending ship? Sounds like you're playing again. Which one was it?

Agree on the class changes.

I think the corvettes are sitting a little too low in the water though.

I think there should be less Xebecs. Galley variants were really a Mediterranean phenomenon. There are recorded examples of them in the Carribean, but not many and they would have been primarily coastal around the Spanish cities on the mainland. I would rather see a four masted Caravela Redonda in a period mod game. Those brought the advantages of a lateen rig to the interesting winds of the Caribbean, but combined with the seaworthiness of a high freeboard in rough conditions. ARRR, I'd wager Xebecs din't last long in ye Ole Caribee me buckoes.

Back to the subject of this thread though. You guys have got me thinking (dangerous) and I've been looking at a lot of old material I've collected over the years in my study. I really think that we should pursue a comprehensive higher fidelity GUN MOD. Thoughts?

V/R MK

 

[rbray14]

i think there are few bad mods and even the bad ones can be good to someone.i wish i was able to help more,but financial times as they are i get to have my laptop that runs coas like 1 week every 2 months,so as always i'm useless :will and my game is acting weird now,it's freezing up often.
so my play time is even more limited but i look foreword to anything ya'll come up with

 

[Luke159]

I can't say as to how popular any shop type was in the caribbean, i know the Sllops was very popular and other small ships. ships like the Man-o-War wasn't seen in the caribbean often, Line Ships might not have been seen very often either. Frigates may have been a regular ship seen in the waters but how many was in the Caribbean it looks like at least in the early years of the golden age it was small ships that was been used, however i have yet to see a Xebec in the game4 and i have been involved in 6 navel battles now and i'm only a rank 8 character, the ships i see alot of now are the Lydia, Black Angel, 12 Gun Sloop or what ever that ship is called, Privateer (Slop Of War) i don't see many Frigates at the moment either. Its mainly small ships even when i started a new game as a test game and used the cheats to build my character up to level 138 i still saw mostly small ships. Saying that there was one battle where there was 2 66 gunner liner ships or ships of the line and i was in a Privateer a 22 gunner ship lol, that wasn't too nice, not sure how close i was to loosing a mast, all my sails had been hit bad i had recieved 3 broadsides from those ships and it showed.

I also noticed someting interesting in the current game i'm playing where i'm rank 8 (without cheats). In a battle where the English had the power but the pirates had the speed i gave chase to one pirate ship while the other pirate ship chased me, iwas just as quick as the ship i was chasing which was the Shnyava, a class 5 ships the pirate ship chasing me was the Enterprise, my ship was the Packet Brig. This was my first real taste of a battle so my gunnery skills was still at there starting levels, the crew was good at sailing and bad at everything else. The only officer i had was the carpeter (couldn't find a nav or cannoneer officer). I fired from the stern 2 chainshots at a time trying to slow the Enterprise down while i fired a few broadsides at the Shnyava trying to slow here down because i was only abou 0.2 knots faster and a good broadside from the Shnyava would easily slow me down alot and i couldn't afford to loose too much speed because the Enterprise wasn't much slower than us.

In the end i captured the Shnyava after raking her decks a few times and boarding her. I then ordered the newly captured ship which i put my only officer in charge of to sail to Charlestown's fort and defend it. I figured if the AI took my companion as bate which they normally do i could fire broadside after broadside of chainshots into her rigging and then rake the decks and loot her but that plan didn't work, the AI was only interested in me as i watched my companion sail away i listened as the Enterprise fired her bow guns at me. I sailed straight for the English ships that was miles behind but still chasing these Enterpise, i figured it would be stupid to follow me but follow me it did and after a long battle i was totally demasted thanks to the Black Angel who's bow spitter ripped my masts down as she turned. The Enterpise fired a few shots and started to rake my decks, i was down to 53 crew while the Enterprise had 129 crewmen left. She came in so close that the boarding symbol came up but she didn't board me. She got out monouvered by the Black Angel and was it looked to be dead but no the Enterprise escaped and fired at me and a few shots at the other ships. I think this captain didn't like the fact that i had stopped them from escapping. Anyway they did board me in the end after the Indiaman had broadsided her with grapes killing a few crew and loosing more crew to the Fluyt. With 95 crewmen left we had a blood thirsty battle and i won how i don't know but i won. A ship without masts and only 23 crewmen remaining alive i won. What i found interesting was the fact that this Enteprise had a few perfect opotunities to board me but didn't instead the Ai ellected to broadside me and keep doing so till it had no choice, it was like the AI had a goal to stop me from moving then board me, using my tactics on me. Scary lol.

I'm still testing to see if i can find the ship, the line i edited was in scripts which was a typo by me on a ship to be generated at rank 8, which is where it was closing down. I enter every battle i see and every convoy i see i will look at, i save bore entering the battle or sail mode because then if it does close down i can retry and see if i've found the problem again or not. Hopefully the problem is fixed.

I think there are a few ships that sit a little too low, the Packet Brig is another. Thanks for pointing the Corvette out, i don't normally sail them so i wouldn't know. I will hopefully have them all fixed soon.

 

[Luke159]

Hey MK

Is this what your Corvette looks like?
Corvette


Here is the Fluyt Of War (she now sits lower in the water as you can see from the first picture)

 

[modernknight1]

100 percent better Luke!!! Can't wait to download the new combined mod. MK

 

[Luke159]

This version of the combined mod will include every single ship ported over from COAS, the mod size in rar format is over 800MB's unrared its over 2GB's. There will be one final release of this comined mod at a later date but for now this is to give everyone the new ships and let them have fun sailing, fighting or looking at them. Personally i like to have a small ship the Privateer has taken the role of my small favourite ship which is now a class 4 ship, because its almost an improved Packet Brig in fact i think the base model is the Packet Brig but without the small boat fastened on the stern.

In total i think its 72 or so ships most was ported over by Cong earlier this year but since the ships i've ported over are based around those ships i have included them and because they are part of the RTBL mod.

Obviously its going to take a while to upload so i will leave it uploading and check back on it in about 30 minutes to see how its going. As soon as its finished in about 4 hours time, it will be available for everyone to download.

 

[Luke159]

At last the cannons mod is finished. :will

After looking at other mods i have figured out how to unlock all the other calibure of cannons. The cannons now start from 4Ibs to 92Ibs and the culverines now start from 4Ibs up to 42Ibs. I have also fixed there pictures so they show at the shipyard like the vanilla cannons/culverines do.





Download link
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=I6A82BFN

 

[nixarass]

At last the cannons mod is finished. :will

After looking at other mods i have figured out how to unlock all the other calibure of cannons. The cannons now start from 4Ibs to 92Ibs and the culverines now start from 4Ibs up to 42Ibs. I have also fixed there pictures so they show at the shipyard like the vanilla cannons/culverines do.





Download link
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=I6A82BFN

That's good luke. By the way (i'm testing your allcombined mod) do you know which is he linecode of which file that controls ship appearance?

Like to set a ship as unique, only buyable, or to control the ship appearance probability like rare or often? :hmm

 

[Luke159]

If you want to remove the ship from been buyable then you need to find all of the following lines of code in Age of Pirates 2\Program\scripts/ShipsUtilites.

if (iTest_ship == 7) FillShipParamShipyard(NPChar, GenerateStoreShip(SHIP_NAme), "ship12");

Thanks for looking at the ship_init file MK, the new value's look good, obviously that file isn't included in the current uploads so you'll need to add that to be up to date.

The Xebec and Battle Xebec was such ships that wasn't buyable in shipyards now since adding them in that file they are generated at shipyards. The Arabella was another ship but we both agreed it should be a shiup you can buy since not all of us will want to do the Peter Blood storyline which at the time was the only way you could get your hands on the Arabella.

As for making them rare, i'm not sure about that. Maybe by removing them from that file will effect that too.

 

[nixarass]

Luke, going into your shputility file i have found this:

if (iTest_ship == 9) FillShipParamShipyard(NPChar, GenerateStoreShip(SHIP_XEBEC_FRANCE), "ship4");


What ship does this "XEBEC_FRANCE" stands for? I haven't any ship named like this.

 

[Luke159]

Luke, going into your shputility file i have found this:

if (iTest_ship == 9) FillShipParamShipyard(NPChar, GenerateStoreShip(SHIP_XEBEC_FRANCE), "ship4");


What ship does this "XEBEC_FRANCE" stands for? I haven't any ship named like this.

That will be the Schooner Xebec, here's its ship_Init data. I don't understand why its not there because it should be since it was the last ship i ported over for the currently available to download full ships comined mod.

///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
// Schooner Xebec
///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
makeref(refShip,ShipsTypes[SHIP_XEBEC_FRANCE]);
refShip.Name            			= "SchoonerXebec";
refship.Soundtype					= "lugger";
refShip.Class					= 5;
refShip.Cannon          			= CANNON_TYPE_CANNON_LBS12;
refShip.MaxCaliber      			= 18;
refShip.Weight						= Tonnes2CWT(200);
refShip.Capacity        			= 2400;
refShip.CannonsQuantity				= 24;
refShip.rcannon 				= 10;
refShip.lcannon 				= 10;
refShip.fcannon 				= 2;
refShip.bcannon 				= 2;
refShip.MaxCrew         			= 120;
refShip.MinCrew         			= 35;
refShip.BoardingCrew				= 80;
refShip.GunnerCrew					= 18;
refShip.CannonerCrew				= 50;
refShip.SailorCrew					= 125;
refShip.SpeedRate					= 17.7;
refShip.TurnRate        			= 32.0;
refShip.Price           			= 75600;
refShip.HP              			= 1900;
refShip.SP              			= 600;
refShip.AbordageLocation			= "Boarding Deck_01";
refship.Type.Merchant				= true;
refship.Type.War				= true;
refShip.fWindAgainstSpeed			= 6.0;
refShip.sea_enchantment				= 2.0;
refShip.lowpolycrew				= 8;
refShip.buildtime 				= 20;

refship.Rocking.y 				= 0.5;
refship.Rocking.az 				= 0.035;

refship.WaterLine 							= 0.90;
refship.SpeedDependWeight = 0.3;
refship.SubSeaDependWeight = 0.3;
refship.TurnDependWeight = 0.8;
refship.WindAgainstSpeed   = 3.6;//boal

refship.InertiaAccelerationX	= 0.2;	refship.InertiaBrakingX		= 2.0;
refship.InertiaAccelerationY	= 15;	refship.InertiaBrakingY		= 10;
refship.InertiaAccelerationZ	= 9.0;	refship.InertiaBrakingZ		= 2.0;

refShip.Height.Bombs.Y				= 1.0;	refShip.Height.Bombs.DY		= 0.5;
refShip.Height.Grapes.Y				= 2.0;	refShip.Height.Grapes.DY	= 1.0;
refShip.Height.Knippels.Y			= 10.0;	refShip.Height.Knippels.DY	= 8.0;
refShip.Height.Balls.Y				= 1.0;	refShip.Height.Balls.DY		= 0.5;

refship.Track.Enable	= true;
refship.Track1.ZStart	= 0.20;
refship.Track1.LifeTime = 9;
refship.Track1.Width	= "2.0, 3.0";
refship.Track1.Speed	= "8.0, 10.0";

refship.Track2.ZStart	= -0.15;
refship.Track2.LifeTime = 7;
refship.Track2.Width	= "3.0, 4.5";
refship.Track2.Speed	= "0.15, 0.25";

I just checked in the mod i uploaded and the ship is included.