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Rewrite current main quest...

I don't object to a toggle at all. I'd actually PREFER to have a toggle. But I'm afraid that with our serious lack of modders, adding a toggle straight way might be a reason for this mod to never get finished, because it IS a lot of work to add the toggle. And more coding always means more chance of bugs. But if somebody wants to add a toggle without bugs, that's be most welcome. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/yes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":yes" border="0" alt="yes.gif" />
 
The following gives the current outline being worked on for your suggestions/changes/comments.
For space reasons I have only listed the specifics (I believe everyone knows the original story well enough to fill in the gaps) and I have left out specific “in and out” of the quest situations, but I think I have covered them in the comments.
I have ignored “time” as it is not possible to maintain, but I believe I have the events in about the correct order.
It can be started in the original tutorial – or – other islands – or – stormy start. I have listed the original start, but I think everyone is aware how the “other starts” can inter-act.
The original Main Quest is still intact (with some name changes) but can be avoided.

The Proposed Story:
Starting at the original Tutorial
Do the business with Malcom.
Enter Oxbay Town.
Meet Mishipman James Norrington (looking for pirates).
Enter the Tavern.
Meet Cutler Beckett.
Given opportunity to join East India Company.
Accept or Decline.
If Accepted given a quest – (if not accepted offered again at Redmond.)
Finish Tutorial.
Sail to Redmond.
Meet Cutler Beckett. (Again or first time according to start island).
If quest successful - option to report invasion or not – if not reported Beckett EIC quests only.
(EIC quest: Beckett takes over each island, one at a time by economic means using player)
If quest unsuccessful in deep “do-do” with Beckett – given opportunity to redress situation.(hard!)
If screwed with Beckett on this quest and cheated him Beckett becomes enemy, pursues player
for rest of game.
Or if not previously accepted, re-offered to join EIC at Redmond.
If declined again Beckett acts independently of player but jumps back in from time to time to mess with Main Quest.
If invasion reported Main Quest starts plus additional quest from Beckett.
Report to Governor.
Brief meeting with Hector Barbossa.
Sail to Oxbay.
Meet captured Norrington (get info. for Governor).
Meet French Officer.
Continue Main Quest as is.
Sail to Falaise de fluer.
Beckett appears “checking on his interests” according to player’s status with him.
As is till visit Oxbay for Tobias meeting.
Meet Norrington again who has organised resistance forces to help with Oxbay liberation.
Hide in shipyard – get musical box for Beckett.
Sail to Redmond.
Governor for leaving for England to report situation says Beckett will take over for the time being.
Lose musical box to Barbossa and company.
Meet Anamaria. (was Danielle)
Get arrested.
Released by Beckett (you have a problem here if you are not in his good books – branded pirate).
Told Norrington now a lieutenant for his work in freeing Oxbay - gone back to England.
Beckett gives quest to find Barbossa.
As is till letter to pirate lord.
Beckett who hates pirates sends you with fake letter from governor.
Retrieve stolen treasures.
Get Wicked Wench.
As is till meet Inventor.
Continue search for Barbossa.
Barbossa badly wounded in hut with Anamaria – they leave you there.
As is till meet Anamaria again.
Got to Governors mansion roust Beckett who now is definitely not happy with you.
As is till got idol.
Go see inventor sends you to look for Anamaria.
As is till
Continue with inventor till ready to sail then Beckett muscles in and gives you quest
to go to Africa for slaves. Marks you as a pirate to “ensure” your loyalty. (if not previously done).
Jump to Africa shore.
Meet Tia Dalma - free her - get compass.
Tia Dalma “magics” player back to Oxbay Lighthouse.
Ready to sail for treasure.
Steal/get ship complete quest for Aztec/Inca Gold.
Return from Temple. Find Beckett has sunk Wicked Wench
Meet Davy Jones on shore.
Get Wicked Wench/Black Pearl for deal with Davy.
Barbossa arrives convinces you to take him on
– he hates Beckett who betrayed him (he says).
Mutinies and dumps you only island “with only one bullet”.
Get off island with pirate ship (per Douwnsen)
To Redmond.
See Brinn and clear Silehard
Told Weatherby Swann is on his way as replacement governor anyway.
First”film” story start.
to be continued:
 
so we're skipping those two years that jack had the pearl? well, i don't see any other solution anyway. the back-story of the music box can be imagined.
 
<!--quoteo(post=191169:date=Apr 24 2007, 05:43 AM:name=morgan terror)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(morgan terror @ Apr 24 2007, 05:43 AM) [snapback]191169[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->so we're skipping those two years that jack had the pearl? well, i don't see any other solution anyway. the back-story of the music box can be imagined.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Hi Morgan - It would be possible to "pause" between Davy and meeting Barbossa, by putting Barbossa on a specific island so he would not join till the player sailed there. This would allow room for general pirating in between.

If the EIC quest is followed then the Pearl could become available as rank increases.
 
i agree with thomas.

maybe the mutiny should occur when you are at QC? however, i do see quite a few more difficulties trying to get off the island, as you have very little options. i would prefer douwesen, but you've been marooned there before, so that doesn't seem like such a good choice either. i think conceciao or turk island would be a good choice. especially the latter.

one thing though: how about having the dialogue with barbossa on the ship's deck? it IS possible, but it has to be somehow triggered when using directsail as well. when using the worldmap, you would be transported to the ship's deck at the moment you go to seaview. but when using directsail, i'm not sure wether it's possible. the player should end up on a beach afterwards, just like the stormy start. all the beaches do lead to town, right?
 
Couple of questions and suggestions:

1) The EITC company quest sounds interesting, but perhaps it's best to first finish the work on

changing our current main quest before starting to add new stuff like that. I'm always afraid that the

more plans are made, the less chance there is of the mod actually being finished. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/unsure.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":?" border="0" alt="unsure.gif" />

2) What story purpose does Norrington have? Or is he just a fun movie tie-in who doesn't actually

influence the story (much)?

3) The reporting of the invasion is done to Beckett now? Not to the governor?

4) Why does Barbossa want the musical box? Seems to make more sense to me if it were Davy Jones' men.

After all: Barbossa isn't cursed yet and has nothing to do with Davy Jones. However, Davy will be

wanting his music box back. The player could be cornered by a bunch of Davy's henchmen, who are cursed,

but haven't been in Davy's crew for so long that they look very sea-like yet. That way the player will

get his first glimpse of the Davy Jones story here.

5) What does Beckett want with Barbossa?

6) What is fake about the fake letter?

7) Beckett marks the player as a pirate BEFORE sending the player to Africa? I thought the player was

supposed to be branded a pirate after the player refused to do what Beckett ordered him to.

<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cool.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="8)" border="0" alt="cool.gif" /> You only get the Black Pearl after going to Khael Roa? That's quite late, isn't it? I was also

wondering: If the player has the Black Pearl at that time, what ship will they be fighting at the end

of the current main quest? One of Beckett's ships? The Flying Dutchman?

Also a couple of random ideas that popped into my head:
How about we forget all about Khael Roa and make it Isla de Muerte instead? So during the current main quest, the player will be searching for Isla de Muerte instead. Beckett sends the player to search for the treasure, but the player wants the treasure for himself. The exact same thing goes for Barbossa, but the player doesn't know this. However, the player gets the compass from Tia Dala in thanks of freeing her in Africa and thus the player can get the treasure while Barbossa can't. The player is branded a pirate and loses the Wench, but gains the Pearl from Davy Jones. However, the player now doesn't have a crew, so heads to Tortuga to hire a bunch of cutthroats, who just happen to be led by Barbossa. Then they set off to find Isla de Muerte (instead of Khael Roa). However, then the mutiny takes place and the player is teleported to Khael Roa (now Pelegostos). The player has nothing but a one-shot pistol and his fists at the moment, so the player has to start all over again. However, when the player manages to get to Tortuga, he can "borrow" a small boat from Annamaria to use to get to Redmond, where he can meet Will and Elizabeth.

Basically there would be a couple of main sections in the story:
<b>1) Tutorial</b>

<b>2) Quests having to do with the Oxbay invasion</b>
These quest are for the governor, but it appears that Beckett knows more about this than he admits. Player gets a faint feeling something sticky is going on with Beckett. During these quests, the music box/Davy Jones/Flying Dutchman story also plays out, giving the player some info on Davy and a first glimpse of the Flying Dutchman.

<b>3) Search for Barbossa</b>
This quest is given by Beckett. According to Beckett: Barbossa is an evil pirate who must be caught. In reality: Beckett wanted Barbosa to find the treasure of Isla de Muerte, but found out Barbossa wants the treasure for himself. Player hits a dead end in his search.

<b>4) Search for Isla de Muerte</b>
Because Barbossa won't help Beckett find the treasure, Beckett orders the player to find it instead. The player finds a couple of idols from the treasure and gets the Wicked Wench as reward. During this search, the player finds out the legend: The island with the actual treasure can only be found if you already know where it is. Another dead end.

<b>5) Be sent to Africa</b>
Up until this point, the player was in the employ of Beckett and the East India Trading Company. However, the player betrays Beckett and frees Tia Dalma and the other slaves. The player is branded a <i>pirate</i> upon return and loses the Wicked Wench. From now on, all nations are at war with the player!

<b>6) Deal with Davy Jones</b>
Player meets Davy Jones in person and makes the deal to raise the Pearl. However, the player has no money and no crew since he was branded a pirate and the Wicked Wench was burned. So the player needs to recrew the Pearl and go plundering to find money to equip himself and his crew properly again. During the search for the crew, the player will meet and hire Barbossa at Tortuga. After all: The player thinks Barbossa is an evil pirate and so is the player.

<b>7) Go to Isla de Muerte</b>
The player can now go raiding and plundering as much as he wants (this is the two years Captain Jack actually captained the Pearl. As soon as the player thinks he is properly crewed and equipped, he can set sail for Isla de Muerte and the mutiny occurs. Player is marooned on Pelegostos.

<b><img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cool.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="8)" border="0" alt="cool.gif" /> Escape from Pelegostos</b>
The player then has to get off the island, either with the help of the Pelegostos (who he has to convince he is a god in human form), by using a couple of sea turtles or by waiting for the rum runners. The player only has his fists and a one-shot pistol available though. There is, of course, still the Mayan temple on the island as well, which can be used for the "god in human form" option.

[Quesion: How to fill in the ten year gap between this and the following part?]

<b>9) Start of first film events</b>
When the player manages to get to Tortuga, he can "borrow" a leaky Tartane from Annamaria, with which to sail to Redmond where he then meets Will and Elizabeth. The Black Pearl attacks Redmond, Elizabeth is captured, Will helps Jack to find Elizabeth and you all know the story, so I don't have to continue. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/whistling.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":wp" border="0" alt="whistling.gif" />

Please note: The above is all just random brainstorming. There might be good ideas in there, there might be bad ones. Do with it as you wish. I am fine with anything being done. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/doff.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":doff" border="0" alt="doff.gif" />
 
Err.... I just read your scenario Short Jack Gold, and honestly... I must say I don't really like it... Do you allow me to propose some idears?

Basicly, the goal is to make over a main quest with Jack Sparrow being the main character, and based on the stock PotC old main quest.
So we must chose what we are going to keep from the old main quest, and what we won't ; at the same time we need to introduce some characters from the movie.

- Of course we keep the war between England and France, and the expedition against Oxbay - we could add extra tasks here, and make it less linear by giving the player the oportunity to join the French side. That would match with the personality of Jack Sparrow, he's far from being a patriot and as far as he get his money he's certainly willing to serve any of the side, and why not secretly both at the same time - the perfect traitor.

- About the Anamaria character. I would personaly remove her, or make her not very important. The original main quest was considering there were a kind of rivality between you and Danielle, and as the same time a kind of love story... I don't think this match Jack Sparrow. He should appear more like the one-night seductor, more interested in borrowing Anamaria's ship than by herself... So I wouldn't put any important female character there. At least not Danielle-like.

- About Tia Dalma and your strange idea of leaving to Africa and freeing her... I don't like it because this way Tia Dalma will owe you her freedom. So here is my though on how this usefull character would be introduce, do what you want with it : do you remember when you become a slave in the Oxbay mines, and met Deborio Drago? There are several problems with this part : currently he's completly useless as an officer, the way you get enslaved is really too dumb... etc. Let's imagine Becket had found this way of making you disapear for good. You become a prisoner for crime against England, trahison, and all kind of pretexts true or not : your ships are confiscated, your officers removed, and you have to work in the mines for the rest of your life. In the mines, you'll notice a smal group of black people that seems to be unified - one of them is Leborio Drago. You would be able to comunicate with him when the soldiers wouldn't look, and you would join his team. First, you need to follow them into the mines, unarmed (we could use the model of Oxbay cave or Douwesen dungeon), take the weapons of the soldiers that died in the accident and then you attack some soldiers isolated in the mines to take their weapons. Then you would free the others prisonners, that would try to escape by the wooden fort : most of them would be killed by numerous English soldiers while you'll try to exit by another way throught the mines (the other prisonners being used as a diversion). You will find yourself in the jungles, then one member of the team will try to lead the group to a village of... well, I don't know the word in English, in Portuguese "quilombos", in Spanish "palenques" and in French "negres marrons" (there are lots of other words for them) : escaped slaves that live hidden in the jungles, with many of their African traditions. Tia Dalma would be there.

- About Becket taking over each island, I don't like this idear at all : I think he will take over each <u>English</u> islands, that's means all the key economic & political points : stores, etc. He will become a menacing power, being more powerfull that the governor of Redmond/Port Royal and having a whole bunch of nasty guys working for him and the East India Company. (What on earth the East India Company's doing in the Carribean by the way?... )

- About the Black Pearl. I don't know why Jack Sparrow loves that ship so much, I says it's because of what it represents : liberty, etc. I guess it's because the ship is supposed to be the fastest. I think a huge part of the quest should be given on how the ship was built, by who, why... And how Jack managed to get it... And how he lost it, and how he had to ask Davy Jones to get it back. Anyway, maybe some extra brainstorming should be done about all that.

- Jack is supposed to be a pirate. In the original main quest, you was mostly serving England, and no other country - you became a pirate when you were strong enough to oppose the governor. I think the Jack Sparrow main quest should mostly be a Pirate main quest. I would personnaly add more of the Costal Brotherhood, pirates friends (that would eventually die one-by-one killed by Norrington later) and stuff like that. More pirates rules. I think the game should be made more difficult for thoses reason : no pirates in MoW, the pirate life being really really dangerous. Many historians believe that the Pirates' democraticle rules, the importance of freedom and liberty, the story - or myth? of Libertalia, made by those sailors - poor peoples, were a kind of Revolution of the Poors, somehow like the future French Revolution. (although I don't quite agree on that.) I don't want Jack to follow those idears - he's really to much egocentrist! - but I'd like it to be more present, a little like in Seadogs.

- About Barbossa... Like Pieter, I would make him appear later ingame, when Jack returns to Tortuga to find a new crew after getting the Black Pearl from Davy Jones. The game would stop when Jack would be left alone on the island, with a simgle pistol and one bullet.

- Now about the cursed Aztec coins story, we need to find how Jack heard about it. He would realise that only the magic compass could lead him to the island by talking to Tia Dalma, but he would need to give her another magic item in exchange of it - the item stored in the labyrinth of Kael Roa for exemple, that way we could connect the two stories.

That was some suggestions. Please tell me what you think about them...



EDIT : yups, I started to write all that some hours before and didn't notice Pieter had posted this in the time meaning...
 
do you actually know the story from before the first movie? pieter's version get's as close as it can get, and i like it the best.
 
<!--quoteo(post=191384:date=Apr 25 2007, 04:42 PM:name=morgan terror)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(morgan terror @ Apr 25 2007, 04:42 PM) [snapback]191384[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->do you actually know the story from before the first movie? pieter's version get's as close as it can get, and i like it the best.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Both versions don't seem incompatible to me. And no, I don't see how I could know what happen before the first movie, other than from tiny elements said from time to time. If you're thinking at PotC Legend of J.Sparrow, I don't see why we would follow it.
 
there is a link somewhere in this topic that shows the whole story from before the first movie. i'd recommend reading that first.
 
I didn't make up the "going to Africa" story. That is, apparently, the official backstory. Jack Sparrow is in the employ of Beckett's East India Trading Company and is sent to Africa, apparently to bring slaves to the archipelago. Jack goes there, does something that Beckett wasn't happy with (I think he freed the slaves and/or refuses to take them with him). When Jack returns in the Caribbean, Beckett burns his ship, the Wicked Wench (that is the official name) and marks Jack a pirate. Then the known story from the films start.

I agree more pirates and more pirateyness would be great. Having Norrington kill off all Jack's pirate friends also sounds like a pretty interesting idea. That would illustrate the navy's power increasing and the pirate life becoming harder and harder as time progresses. Your thoughts have made me think up a new random idea for the set-up of the game. Break up the game in four parts:

<b>1) Tutorial and simple start</b>
Player has a small ship and just goes about his business, either trading or doing small jobs for the English government, such as investigating the French invasion. During this part of the game, the player doesn't have a big ship yet and isn't very well-known yet. Basically the player is just an anonymous captain going about his business.

Spain is the main player in the Caribbean and has lots of treasure galleons sailing back to the homeland. There aren't many pirates yet and the pirates who are there only use small cheap ships and and only attack small trading vessels. England and France are also active in the Caribbean and are having a quarrel with each other over the Oxbay affair. The Netherlands are just trying to do trading. There are no bug ships in the Caribbean at all, apart from the treasure galleons and their escorts. The player can try to capture one of the Spanish treasure galleons, which will greatly increase his notority. As soon as the player reaches a high enough fame, the next part is triggered.

The main challenges for the player here are:
- Staying alive
- Making just enough money to run the ship
- Gaining somewhat bigger ships and and try to make more money

<b>2) Golden Age of piracy</b>
More and more pirates are coming up to the Caribbean, taking with them better equipped and more modern pirate ships to take advantage of the many Spanish treasure galleons and the lack of a big organized navy there. At one point, the Caribbean almost gets into a state of anarchy. The player can either become a pirate himself and go on a major pirating campaign to become a well-known pirate or join one of the navies to try and eradicate all pirates. If the player works for one of the navies, he is basicaly just a privateer or freebooter with a Letter of Marquee, but not an official navy employee. There is not much navy activity yet and the navy ships that are there are small. The player can capture more modern pirate ships or buy them at pirate shipyards. Normal shipyards only sell small regular trading ships, such as the Lugger, Schooner, etc. This second part in the game is triggered as soon as the player makes a bit of a name for himself in some way.

During this age, Jack Sparrow gets branded as a pirate in the main quest and Davy Jones is at large with his Flying Dutchman and the Kraken. Plank-walkings and mutinies are occurring on a daily basis and all the beaches are almost littered with buried treasure. The taverns are filled with drunken pirates and the few merchants who still dare sail in the Caribbean are most willing to pay handsomely to be escorted safely. Lots of famous pirates are plundering around for the player to meet, make alliances with or try to kill.

The main challenges for the player here are:
- PIRATE: Gain as much money as possible by capturing enemy ships and raiding towns
- PIRATE: Get better ships and start your fleet
- PRIVATEER: Get as much money as possible by sinking as many pirate and enemy ships as possible
- PRIVATEER: Get better ships and start your fleet

<b>3) The rise of the navies</b>
If the player is a really well-known pirate or gets a high enough status in the navy, eventually the navies will start chasing him. More and more navy activity comes to the Caribbean and piracy begins to decrease. During this time, all the famous pirates are being killed (by Norrington), apart from those who the player chooses to protect. The player can either join one of the navies or have to fight increasing numbers of navy fleets with increasingly big ships. If the player chose to join one of the navies in the previous stage of the game, this is the time when the player is hired as an official navy employee and gets backup ariving in the form of more modern and bigger navy ships arriving in the Caribbean. Piracy is in decline and so is the player's salary! The reason being that the navies are becoming increasingly expensive for the countries to run. So the player now has a choice: Continue work for the navies as a law-abiding captain and live with always having too little money or turn your back on the navy and start pirating, taking advantage of the great number of big ships that can now be captured.

Big navy ships can be acquired by the player either by joining a navy or by capturing enemy navy ships. If the player actually joins a navy, the player will experience quite a lot of changes in his lifestyle: The amount of money available to the player is now based on his salary from the navy and bonuses received for sinking or capturing enemy ships. The player will no longer use a ship of his own and ships captured by the player must be returned to the navy. The only way for the player to get new ships is by being promoted.

The main challenges for the player here are:
- PIRATE: Fight the navy ships and stay alive
- NAVY: Get promoted by doing a good job at fighting the pirates
- NAVY: Run your ship with the limited money you are provided with

<b>4) Napoleonic Wars</b>
Piracy has almost been eradicated and now the navies of the various countries are at war with each other. The player can either play as a lonely pirate taking advantage of all the mayhem or the player can work for one of the navies, trying to restore order and peace. This is the era of the big fleets of navy ships and this is when the player, if he joined one of the navies, gets promoted to Commodore and gets command of his own fleet. Of course, when you play as a pirate, you can always use all ships you can lay your hands on and make your own fleet. However, if you are a pirate, the navies will be chasing you and it will become more and more impossible to resist the force of the navies!

The main challenges for the player here are:
- PIRATE: Stay out of the navy's way!
- PIRATE: Try and get enough money to continue plundering
- NAVY: Get promoted by doing a good job at fighting the pirates
- NAVY: Capture the towns of the other countries
- NAVY: Fight big sea battles without sustaining too many losses

[5) Rise of America
This is a fifth era that might be added.]


The reason for above idea is so that we can keep all content enabled in the game and not have to remove anything. With each new era come new challenges. Basically every new era should be a whole new experience for the player. This should also make it so that the game doesn't get too easy after playing it for a short while, because at the point it becomes too easy, the new era starts, bringing with it whole new challenges for the player to tackle. Of course it should be possible for the player to choose his starting era, but the era's will progress anyway. So if you start in the "rise of the navies" era, eventually the Napoleonic wars will break out. But you do skip the first two era's.

As far as PotC movie tie-ins are concerned: The first era would contain the story before the films and the second era would contain the events described in the films. The end of the third film marks the beginning of the third era. The Hornblower stories begin in the third era and continue into the fourth era, while the Master and Commander stories develop between the fourth and the fifth era. In this way it would be possible to play the game as any book or film character, experiencing a life story similar to the ones told in the books and films. It would even be possible to start out as Jack Sparrow working for the East India Trading Company, who then is branded a pirate and does some major pirating during the second age and continues to do pirating into the third age, until he joins the British navy again for the Napoleonic wars. This is probably not what film-Jack would do, but if we manage to implement my above idea it IS what the player could do if he likes. Because the player is completely free to join navies or go pirating at any point in the game, the player can basically do whatever he likes. However, if you do switch all the time during the same game, you will become known as being rather untrustworthy, which then also impacts the game again! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/w00t.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":woot" border="0" alt="w00t.gif" />
 
yes,yes,yes and yes. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/yes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":yes" border="0" alt="yes.gif" /> we seem to be thinking along the same lines.
 
Yes, Pieter, nice post - this time I'm begining to fully agree!
The only thing, I find strange to have a three centuries old main character... I think I would just restart a new game to change of time period & hero at the same time... Besides I'm currently experimenting some code to be able to change of main character whenever you want in the game. (Isn't really working for the moment due to some tiresome bugs, for exemple the officers being all dismissed each time you enter a new location. Bad.)

About the movie we were talking in another post, I personnaly think The Sea Hawk is really better then the first movie in which Errol Flyn acted, Captain Blood. Strange that those movies are unavailable. Maybe they were forbidden by the FBI due to Errol Flynn adhesion to the Cuba communist regime? (just kidding) I've seen only one movie on the Booty, and I didn't like it so much - for such a golden subject, each mistake cannot be tolerated. As for the two movies on War and Peace of Tolstoi (no pirates, I know) : the american movie was awfully bad, compared to the russian one, because Holywood had used this story as an escuse for making a movie. For the lovers of the Napoleonic time, you sould all see this Russian movie!




To Mr Spam-a-lot : I've been reading the article Pieter had linked, and it was indeed usefull to understand the scenario that was being build up. Except on some points like the Black Pearl, what I was suggesting wasn't so incompatible.

However, now I see a little problem I hadn't notice before : if Jack and Becket were working for the East India Company, they were not lucky to be in the Carribean. It seems to me that Jack was supposed to have lived all his childhood in the English colonies in India and arrived in the Carribean only after being chased over by Becket, with the renamed Black Pearl.
Maybe we should start the game by the arrival at Tortuga. Inless we recreate some special locations that are supposed to be far in the East, and that would be the kind of tutorial or introduction. So here is a possibility :

<u>Introduction</u>

Scene 1 : Becket giving the order to sink the <i>Wicked Wench</i>, explaining brievly why to one of his mates.
Scene 2 : Jack Sparrow drinking rum trying to forget this terrible event, in a tavern of Capetown. He hears about the old legend of the Flying Dutchman - the true legend from this place, not the Davy Jones movie one. Then after a dice or card game, his oponent find out that he was cheating and Jack is thrown out of the tavern.
Scene 3 : still a bit drunk, he walk on the desert quay. The weather is really foggy. Then suddenly he bump into Davy Jones. After a long talk, Jack would manage to convince him, and he would get back the <i>Wicked Wench</i> from the point where it was sunk.
(maybe a scene in the Flying Dutchman, if it is finished). Jack decide to live his life of a Pirate, rename his ship the Black Pearl, and decide to leave for the Caribbeans, far from Becket, and the East India company.

<u>Tutorial</u>

Malcom could be replaced by Barbossa, newly hired. You start at Tortuga island, you just arrived to the Caribbean. Jack would have the magic compass from the begining of the game, as you wanted Tia Dalma to have given it after the African part - it would be written in the description of the object.

<u>new Main quest</u>

In the first part of the main quest, you would be collecting infos about the Aztec treasure. The mutiny would occur when you will be about to reach Isla de Muerte, you will then be left on the island.
The difficult part, stormy start like, will now begin. Basicly before that with the fastest ship of the Carribean the game was really easy, which is good for beginers. Another point : it could be usefull in this case to remove the ability to hire officers before the mutiny part.
The goal of all the second part of the main quest would be to find back the Black Pearl, but this quest will have to be very long.
In stock PotC, you were limited in time to accomplish the quest. After 20 years I think (nobody played that long!) you were transformed into a squeleton with the message 'you've become too old to resist to the curse!'. Something similar could be done : after 13 years, you would met Davy Jones again and... the end. (or a kind of Dead man chest survival scenario.) The player would know this problem as it would be clearly noticable in the questbook and in Davy Jones dialog at the begining of the game.

About my former ideas :
1 : unchanged
2 : unchanged
3 : That way Jack Sparrow will met again this person he had saved (if you want it) so long before in Africa. She will be most usefull for the rest of the quest - with magic items. Maybe she could replace the Researcher character? And Jack wouldn't be arrested because of Becket.
4 : I wouldn't add Becket.
5 : -removed-
6 : unchanged
7 : -removed-
8 : -removed-


Now about what we could do to fill the gap, as Pieter says... quite difficult...
First, the player will have to try to quit this bad situation for a moment. He will heard about some incredible success of the Black Pearl from time to time (and eventually help to spread the legend himself, as he's doing in the first movie when talking to the two soldiers.) Then he won't heard of the Black Pearl for a while. The war between France and England will start, Oxbay will be occupied. Before this, he wouldn't be able to join French, English or Spanish side.
The Main quest will continue after some times when you will hear about strange people looking for big weird coins. We could find an extra quest that would oblige Jack to go to Redmond, to help a pirate friend for exemple. Then he would met Nathanel (why not?...) in Redmond tavern who will tell him about the strange adventure that occured to him : the deliver-the-chest-in-Redmond-tavern quest, and the frightening immortal pirates he met. Then you will try to met the Oxbay shipyardmaster to question him. You will now have many way to do that :
- serve the English to help freeing Oxbay
- serve the French to enter the town without any risks
- go as a pirate...
for choice one and two there would be the usual main quests, or extras quests. The main quest will be changed when you will met a former member of your crew in Falaise de Fleur. He would tell you about the curse, and what happened to will's father. He's still cursed, but managed to quit the ship. Maybe he could follow you as a 'tough', being immortal, and each night turning himself into a squeleton...

Then I think we could follow the stock PotC main quest. Barbossa and Jack would imagine that there is maybe something that could remove the curse in the Kael Roa Temple. At the same time, other pirates would believe there could be a tresure here and would compete with you to find it first. One could be Rheims - for this reason you'll be looking for him all over the Archipelago (not for a governor). We could indeed add Annamaria for the dagger part. You wouldn't find and save her in Isla Muelle. There would be a different quest to get the idol - from another concurent? Then the storm, you'll find yourself without a ship. (and wouldn't get it back). Fortunately, you would met Annamaria in the smuggler lair, disapointed : the texts in the library weren't talking about a treasure at all. You would then forgive her about the dagger, seduce her, and then.. leave with her ship, the texts and the idol... Now to Kael Roa! (she would have a good reason to be unhappy in the movie...)
Jack would have to sneak into the temple, etc... but there were nothing to release the curse in the temple. When you come back to the beach, the Black Pearl arrive and destroy all your ships (without knowing you were the captain). Another stormy-start-like part would start again, maybe you could arrive to Redmond with the leaky bucket. And then you start the movie if you want.


This is a possibility, what do you say?...
 
well, i like pieter's version better, in a way that it's a bit more of going up, instead of climbing out of a ditch. (starting situation-wise) but i had indeed looked over the large time-span. this COULD be solved with an immortal jack, if the player would follow a certain option in the main quest, like keeping one of the coins. the main thing i prefer about pieter's version is that it's all-in-one.
 
Peiter you mastermind! Hahaha! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile2.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":))" border="0" alt="smile2.gif" />

I love it, we really need to do this! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />
 
Nice ideas, A Simple Virtual Sailor. I have one problem with it though and it is the same problem I have with my <i>own</i> ideas as well: It requires lots and lots of work. This problem keeps coming back to haunt us, but the fact remains: We have too darn few modders. We have the ideas, we have the tools (mostly) and we know it's all possible to do. But we don't have the people to do it. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/modding.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":modding" border="0" alt="modding.gif" />

I have no problem with a 300-year old main character. Why does the player need to age or die? We can just pretend it all happened much quicker so that one person could live in all those era's. Would we really want to limit the player in the amount of gameyears he can play? Would we really want the player character to die of old age after, say, 50 years of gametime? Or would we really want to delibertaly prevent the player from playing the Napoleonic wars as Jack Sparrow after having played the "Golden Age of Piracy" first? I think the player should be free to do whatever he likes. But I suppose adding a toggle on the passing of the era's wouldn't be all that hard when we would actually try to pursue my above suggestion.

I think Morgan Terror's suggestion about the player becoming immortal(ish) might actually be a pretty good idea to explain the time-span. Immortality is a big part of the PotC films, so it wouldn't be out of place in our game. In our current game, the player can't die anyway, except when being killed during a boarding or sinking in a Tartane. If the player ship sinks, the player will survive in a raft. If the player gets "killed" on land, he will still survive and be reawoken in a tavern. So the player already is immortal. We should also keep in mind the difference between "immortal" and "incinvible". An immortal player doesn't hurt the gameplay, because the player can continue play even when he got "killed". An invincible player, however, does hurt gameplay, because it removes most challenges from the game. That is why, if we do go with this idea, should implement an immortal, but not invincible player.

Good point about Jack living in the English Indies colonies. That is indeed more likely to have happened to the film-Jack. However, we don't have the location models for that, so either somebody should make them or we will just need to set our complete story in the Caribbean. Moving parts of the story to Asia does seem like fun, though. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/yes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":yes" border="0" alt="yes.gif" />

What do you want to do with changing the main character in mid-game? You can already sort-of do that by changing your name ingame and changing your character model. It won't have any impact on how the story plays out, but you can appear differently during the game.

In any case: The original intent of this thread was to think up ways to change the current main quest to Jack Sparrow's story without making too many code changes at all by re-using as much of the current code that is there. We seem to be moving away from that original intent, because each new idea gets bigger, better and, unfortunately, less realistic. I admit this also applies to my own idea above. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":(" border="0" alt="sad.gif" />
 
i know a way of having the story partially take place in asia:

why not have a large area on an island which you can't normally acces, but get teleported to when you go to the asia part? the player wouldn't know it would in fact be on a caribbean island, and think it would be in asia. the only limitation would be that he can't go to another island, unless he's teleported there.

maybe we should start with the links and such first to attract modders and then see about the modding of the main quest?
 
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