Build 14 Completion

[Hylie Pistof]

Since I'm the one doing the complaining about galleon5, I'll capture one and take screenies. They are usually very common. The worst thing about them is the textures in the fore deck area, best seen onboard.

Edit: Here are two screenies, all I can attach. This is a class 3 version.

 

[Armada]

Looking at those screenshots, it seems I'm wrong about floating guardrails.
I was only looking at the files in GM viewer, where no supports were present, so I guess they 'magically' appear in-game... :huh
However, looking at your second screenshot, I notice there is NO guardrail atop the supports in front of the mast. :blink:
And I see what you mean about the textures, mostly on the stairs and pillars at the front, but everything else seems fine.

EDIT: I've just tested her myself, and there's another problem:
You can't walk up the stairs in the 2nd screenshot, so there's a huge blind spot for the 1st person camera at the front of the ship.
Another thing is her gunports on the top deck are just textured on, not physically modelled on the ship.
However, on the plus side, she's one mean ship!
I just managed to take out a small merchant fleet plus escorts, about 5 ships in total, ranging from a Light Frigate to a Sloop, using only Galeon5!
By the end, I had very nearly sunk, but mainly because the fort gunners kept hitting my ship when I got too close to an enemy target.
This was with the friggin' merchant version, too! Which reminds me, all versions share the same model, so when I gave myself the ship via console, it defaulted to her first entry in ships_init, which was the merchant one. This strikes me as a bit strange, so it might need changing.
My main point is, we need to keep this ship, whether we fix or replace her with a new model or not, as she's a very tactical and capable ship.

 

[Hylie Pistof]

Yes, it is a capable ship, roughly equal to the light fluyt of war. And they are all over the place since there are 3 versions. But they have vision problems, are slow, and are ugly. If they weren't so ugly I would be sailing them myself because of their small crew big cargo formula, but as they are I'll take the Fluyt in a heartbeat because it is much faster, has great vision, and is one pretty ship. Keep them if you want.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Seb was the one who added wheels, anchors, figureheads and other details to the stock game ships.
He wanted to do it for all ships, but had to stop at some point because he didn't have the time anymore.
We could ask him if he's planning on continuing that work at some point; it DOES make the ships much nicer.

I thought the Galeon5 already had her walk patch fixed up at some point.

If you want to give yourself another version of the Galeon5, just use the ID of whichever one you want.
For example, "Galeon5W" will be the war galleon while "Galeon5FW" is the fast one.

 

[Armada]

Seb was the one who added wheels, anchors, figureheads and other details to the stock game ships.
He wanted to do it for all ships, but had to stop at some point because he didn't have the time anymore.
We could ask him if he's planning on continuing that work at some point; it DOES make the ships much nicer.

That sounds like a good idea. One small problem is that most of the added details have the reverse lighting bug. I guess they were added with TOOL?

I thought the Galeon5 already had her walk patch fixed up at some point.

If you want to give yourself another version of the Galeon5, just use the ID of whichever one you want.
For example, "Galeon5W" will be the war galleon while "Galeon5FW" is the fast one.

Seems the walk file wasn't fully fixed, then. But that could be done properly, right?
Erm... as for the ID, I forgot about that one. ops But most ships do have the same refShip.ID as refShip.name lines, so I guess I forgot which of the two is the one to use.
Don't worry, ignore me.

 

[Bava]

So perhaps the better alternative, in some cases, is to have replacement models made?
Perhaps even based on more accurate plans of similar real ships

Where are the biggest gaps in the line-up once the VCO ships are removed? I usually don´t sail anything bigger than a 32 gun ship (well, except the Conny), so I don´t know the higher classes very well.
Perhaps we could make a 'Suggested ships to build' sticky in the modelling subforum with a list and plans for the ones that are needed in NH. And yes, I´ve got one or two plans I could share

 

[Armada]

Where are the biggest gaps in the line-up once the VCO ships are removed?

I'm not 100% sure yet, but I'll try to make a more concise list from the ones miklkit pointed out which should be removed.
Once I compare it to the current line up, I can identify any gaps which are crucial to the system, and let you know then what needs doing.

Perhaps we could make a 'Suggested ships to build' sticky in the modelling subforum with a list and plans for the ones that are needed in NH. And yes, I´ve got one or two plans I could share

Now that sounds like a good idea, especially for organisation purposes!
Perhaps I could post the final list of ships that need to be removed/replaced there, and highlight the important ones for complete remodelling.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Indeed those details WERE added through the TOOL, which caused the reverse lighting bug on them.
There's not too much we can do about that, I'm afraid. Nobody's going to go through the trouble to fix them up, I'm afraid...

 

[Armada]

Indeed those details WERE added through the TOOL, which caused the reverse lighting bug on them.
There's not too much we can do about that, I'm afraid. Nobody's going to go through the trouble to fix them up, I'm afraid...

Never mind, at least the details are actually there, which is better than leaving them out altogether.

EDIT: I've now made a list of likely ships to be removed/replaced, in no particular order:

Light Pinnace -- LightPinnace1, 2 and 3
A light merchantman of 18 guns and capacity of 2,000. (Merchant)

4-masted Galleon -- Galeon5 (3 variants total)
The only English galleon in the game, except the Wicked Wench.
Fills one merchant gap (6,000 capacity) and two balanced gaps. (Balanced/Merchant)

Lydia -- Lydia1, 2, 3 and 4
Fills the roll of ‘Light Flushdeck Frigate’, 36 guns. (Navy)

Sirius1 -- Sirius1
A ‘Heavy East Indiaman’ of 48 guns and 5,000 capacity (Balanced)

Batavia1 -- NL_Batavia1 and 2
Light East Indiamen, one is class 4 with 28 guns and 2,500 capacity; the other is class 3 with 32 guns and 3,500 capacity. (Balanced)

Warship11 -- Warship11
A 64-Gun 3[sup]rd[/sup] Rate ship of the line (Navy)

Merchant11 -- Merchant11
A 40-Gun Pinnace-of-War (Balanced)

HMS Endeavour -- HMS_Endeavour (6 variants total)
The only 90-Gun model in the game, making her the only 2[sup]nd[/sup] Rate navy ship; two models used for quests, four models for random encounters. (Navy)

Any suggestions on models to include/exclude from this list are helpful.
The aim is to get a final list of ships we'd like to be completely replaced by new models, to be posted on the modeling subforum.
And I think we should prioritise them, to clarify the ones we need the most.

 

[Hylie Pistof]

Light Pinnace: There are other ships in that size range. They are rarely seen and I'm not sure I've ever sailed one.

4masted Galleon: The only comparable ship that I know of is the Light Fluyt of War. These need to be replaced.

Lydia: It has been some time since I sailed these, and it has been some time since I have even seen one. From memory, all that is wrong with them is that the spyglass does not show any information at all. I captured a 1st rate with one.

Sirius1: If I'm thinking of the correct ship, it is very low rez.

Batavia: I like these ships and will miss them. The walk patch won't allow you to get up on the rear deck so there is no vision to the rear.

Warship11: Bad walk patch. There are other 3rd rates.

Merchant11: Bad walk patch. There are other 40 gun merchant ships.

Endeavour: Dunno. Never acquired one.


Has anyone sailed all of these ships?

 

[Bava]

meehhhh...most of the ships are dated earlier than 1730 and this isn´t exactly my forte...

4-masted Galleon -- Galeon5 (3 variants total)
The only English galleon in the game, except the Wicked Wench.
Fills one merchant gap (6,000 capacity) and two balanced gaps. (Balanced/Merchant)

The only plans available that are similiar to an early english galleon would be `Roter Löwe` and 'Golden Hind'.

Lydia -- Lydia1, 2, 3 and 4
Fills the roll of ‘Light Flushdeck Frigate’, 36 guns. (Navy)

Should be a 'Diana' - class frigate. The terms 'light' and 'flushdeck' aren´t appropriate imo.

Sirius1 -- Sirius1
A ‘Heavy East Indiaman’ of 48 guns and 5,000 capacity (Balanced)

IIRC there are plans for a West/East Indiaman in the Architectura Navalis. I´ll check this.

Batavia1 -- NL_Batavia1 and 2
Light East Indiamen, one is class 4 with 28 guns and 2,500 capacity; the other is class 3 with 32 guns and 3,500 capacity. (Balanced)

I´ve seen plans for the Batavia on ze internets, no idea where, though.

Merchant11 -- Merchant11
A 40-Gun Pinnace-of-War (Balanced)

No idea. Seven Provencien?

Warship11 -- Warship11
A 64-Gun 3rd Rate ship of the line (Navy)

Plan down below.

HMS Endeavour -- HMS_Endeavour (6 variants total)
The only 90-Gun model in the game, making her the only 2nd Rate navy ship; two models used for quests, four models for random encounters. (Navy)

Never seen a useful plan for 2nd Rate.
____________________________________

Some plans, sorted by rating:

3rd rate

english

70 guns, 1707

Spoiler

70 guns, 1707

Spoiler

70 guns,1717

Spoiler

70 guns, 1719

Spoiler

70 guns, 1741

Spoiler

74 guns, 1747

Spoiler

french

74 guns, 1747

Spoiler

74 guns, 1761

Spoiler

spanish

74, 1782

Spoiler

4th rate

english

60 guns, 1757

Spoiler

50 guns, 1719

Spoiler

50 guns, 1741

Spoiler

french

60 guns, 1757

Spoiler

64 guns, 1758

Spoiler

 

[Bava]

Sorry for double post, got a 'too many images for one post' - error

And some smaller ships, ideal if you want to start with ship modelling

Hoy, 1740 ?

Spoiler

Yacht, 1728

Spoiler

Lighter, 1740

Spoiler

[/URL]

Ship-rigged sloop, 14 guns

Spoiler

Bomb Ketch

Spoiler

I´m going to post a list of usefull links and reference books in the evening

 

[pgargon]

As a galleon, I can still see the "Apostles Felipe" (Spanish galleon 30 guns) are heading from 1629. This ship I have a wooden model currently under construction and the plans can be used for 3D construction.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

The spyglass doesn't show information at all? Spyglasses are not ship-dependent. Sounds like Realistic Game Mode to me...

Batavia: I like these as well, but they do fall in the same quality category of the other ones to be removed.
This might actually be a nice project for a modeler to create the REAL Batavia.
There's an actual replica of the Batavia in the town where I live, so the plans must be available somewhere.
The current versions we've got aren't even remotely accurate, though they do have a nice Dutch colour scheme (courtesy of Thomas the Terror).

Endeavour: These do fill a gap in the ship lineup, namely that of more modern friggin' large warships that aren't the "Manowar" model.
If these are to be replaced, I'd suggest a modeler create the HMS Dauntless or HMS Endeavour from the PotC movies and we can retexture them to suit.

The "Golden Hind" sounds like a cool ship to have in the game, especially with her history of (correct me if I'm wrong) of being Henry Morgan's flagship.

Lydia: I would like to have Hornblower's "real" HMS Lydia in the game. Would be useful for the Hornblower storyline as well.

The REAL Seven Provincien is being built at the same wharf in the town where I live where the Batavia was built and resides.
As such, there must be plans around. I like the look of the Seven Provincien more than the Batavia and I wouldn't mind at all having an accurate model of her.

So in short, these are some of the ships *I* would like to see modeled (in order of my personal preference):
- PotC movie version of HMS Dauntless / HMS Endeavour (modernish large battleship; retextures could be used for random encounters)
- Accurate Seven Provincien (Dutch warship; colour scheme to match the other "NL_" ships)
- Accurate Bavatia (Dutch East-Indiaman; colour scheme to match the other "NL_" ships)
- Book/movie version of Hornblower's HMS Lydia (British Royal Navy colour scheme)
- Accurate "Golden Hind" (English Galleon)

(BTW: I personally don't care about double posts when they're useful. I only mind when people post for the sake of posting.)

 

[Hylie Pistof]

About the spyglass, look here. http://forum.piratesahoy.net/topic/15382-build-14-beta-1/page__view__findpost__p__366652__hl__lydia__fromsearch__1

This was discussed when you were out of touch for technical reasons, so you might have missed it.

 

[Bava]

- PotC movie version of HMS Dauntless / HMS Endeavour (modernish large battleship; retextures could be used for random encounters)

The movie Dauntless is a fictional version of the Victory. So we could use pgargon`s updated model with minor texture changes or wait for Kazeite to finish his really cool Santissima Trinidad and then apply a RN colour scheme.

The "Golden Hind" sounds like a cool ship to have in the game, especially with her history of (correct me if I'm wrong) of being Henry Morgan's flagship.

It was the ship of Sir Francis Drake when he circumnavigated the world

Lydia: I would like to have Hornblower's "real" HMS Lydia in the game. Would be useful for the Hornblower storyline as well.

IIRC, Lydia was a 'napoleonic' 36 gun frigate, right? If so, plans shouldn´t be hard to find.

- Accurate Seven Provincien (Dutch warship; colour scheme to match the other "NL_" ships)
- Accurate Bavatia (Dutch East-Indiaman; colour scheme to match the other "NL_" ships)

Both ships were done for PotBS, so there have to be some plans suitable for modelling purposes.
I have no idea where to find them, though.

As a galleon, I can still see the "Apostles Felipe" (Spanish galleon 30 guns) are heading from 1629. This ship I have a wooden model currently under construction and the plans can be used for 3D construction.

A spanish galleon would be awesome. And I wouldn´t mind seeing some pics of your wooden model

 

[Armada]

Oh CURSES, I had just finished a lengthy reply when my stupid internet decided to sign me out of the website! That's what I get for <1Mbps broadband!
And since I was using the rich text editor, it was backed up in simplified form, so now I've got to decode the damn thing! That will take friggin' ages!
So I'll simplify it:

There's an actual replica of the Batavia in the town where I live, so the plans must be available somewhere.
...
The REAL Seven Provincien is being built at the same wharf in the town where I live where the Batavia was built and resides.

Blimey, all that history on your doorstep? You lucky devil!
It reminds me of the famous Historic Dockyard in Portsmouth; Mary Rose, HMS Victory, HMS Warrior... British naval heaven!

<br>Endeavour: These do fill a gap in the ship lineup, namely that of more modern friggin' large warships that aren't the "Manowar" model.
If these are to be replaced, I'd suggest a modeler create the HMS Dauntless or HMS Endeavour from the PotC movies and we can retexture them to suit.

Indeed movie accurate versions would be absolutely great!
I found this while doing some digging on the site:

For your information, this is the paint scheme for the Dauntless:

And this is the paint scheme for the Endeavour:

Kazeite posted these WAY back in 2007 : in the 'More Filmships' thread, and I'm surprised no-one has acted on them since then to produce something!
HOWEVER, looking at these drawings, it would seem these ships are 100+ Gun 1st rates, not 90 Gun 2nd Rates, so we need TWO new models now!

EDIT: Bava, I think the Santissima Trinidad would be a bit big for the Endeavour/Dauntless, considering it has quite a few more guns...
And using pgargon's Victory as retextures, seems to me like the 'cheap inaccurate' option. Personally, I agree with Pieter; it's about time we had some movie accurate models of these two. That is, if someone can find some decent plans to work from. The drawings above aren't enough, but I guess they'd really help.

EDIT2: I forgot one more ship which seems to have been overlooked: Will Turner's Flying Dutchman.
I believe she's of Russian origin, and doesn't seem to resemble the cursed (movie accurate) version much.
I know the uncursed ship is only briefly seen in 'AWE', and doesn't yet play an actual roll in the game (right?), except being sold by 'you-know-who', so I wouldn't make her a high priority.
But I still think she needs improving. I mean, how many of us wouldn't want to sail an accurate Dutchman which isn't covered in seaweed and 'fish people'? :

 

[pgargon]

For Endeavour and Dauntless needs to make only one other color schemes and even small changes to my HMS Victory. Should go relatively quickly. For the Seven Provincien I'm already been searching but have only found a bad plan with no additional information and details. But as Pieter Boelen lives so near :gday the Seven Provincien such it can and perhaps details and also a good plan.

@Bava
The Santissima Trinidad by Kazeite is unfortunately on hold. I hope they Kazeite yet finished. He already has. Obj files loaded on the server. I imported this with me in 3ds max and if it is at least finished the swim in my game already. But I will not intervene and there Kazeite hear whether he finishes the project or not.

 

[xseanx69]

I think that there are two much HUGE ship's in the game. History tells us that a pirate with a 22 gun Sloop or a 36 gun Schooner rulled the entire Carribean for a few years. And in our game allmost all "map" encounters are against 3/4 36 gun ships which could be a fleet to protect the Bloody Mary :hmm :hmm

I think instead of adding alot of 90/100+ guns to the game, we need to make a more realistic system of crew experience and that a 22 gun Sloop for instence could really make a threat on merchants.

About the Endeavour and Dauntless maybe we could make them "hunt" pirates :ixi and have ONLY one Endeavour and Dauntless in the whole game.

 

[Hylie Pistof]

Don't get too concerned about the big ships. This is mostly about replacing the VCO ships, which are mostly the larger ones. I like the big impressive ships. They are no use against small ships at close range and I have yet to figure out how to feed the huge crew, but they are impressive.

Oh, those sloops and brigs are a threat to merchant ships. Get thyself a fleet of class 6,5,& 4 fluyts, pinnaces, and caravels and see how long you last against them. In the last 2 weeks I've lost 2 fluyts and a pinnace. ahoy!