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Solved Cleaning Up the Advanced Options

Redeye said:
I don't understand why you want to remove options. I find that one of the great thing about this game is that we can personalize precisely it to our taste. Removing and/or associating options with game mode would be a big step backward against the small step forward that would be a cleaner option interface.
Its not like you are some wii developer trying to sell it to some kids with low attention span who will get a headache reading a few options line.

Maybe make an option menu with the basic options that you think everyone will use then a submenu for advanced option that you think are less used.This way the option will look clean without limiting the game personalization.
Click to expand...
Thanks a lot for your comments! The main reason for removing stuff is to prevent having dozens of options for the players to sift through; no choice is not good, but too much choice isn't either.
While it's beyond my abilities to add a second menu, what we can do is to not remove any of the options except those we REALLY want to lose, and move all the other non-simple options into PROGRAM\InternalSettings.h .
That way, advanced players could still tweak the game as fully as they always could, but regular players wouldn't get confused by the existance of the toggles.

On a related subject, one of the things I DO like about having different toggles for all the different mods is that they're still all in a central file and I generally can find them.
And once you find the toggle code line, it's pretty simple to find the code that the toggle is related to. I've used that quite a bit in the past to find where various mods can be found in the code.
 
I wonder if maybe it'd make sense if people would post here their preferred game mode and which mods they like to have on and off that are different from the defaults.
And additionally which small tweaks they would like to improve the game experience for them.
We've got to try to come up with a system that is as simple as it can be, but not be a step backwards. We don't want that! :shock

Redeye said:
bool SAIL_DAMAGE_TURNRATE = true;
// 0: No change to turnrate based on sail damage
// 1: Sail damage influences turnrate. Below 7.5% ship will not be able to turn at all
I would like this setting to stay for arcade I m just playing arcade because I find the ship a bit slow in realism mode but I do want damage to affect sails.
Click to expand...
It should be possible to have the Realistic Game Mode with somewhat faster ships.
Would you be interested in that?

Redeye said:
bool USE_MINSAILCREW = true;
// 0: All available crew will reload cannons. Affects only cannon reload times
// 1: Cannon crew will be reduced by crew needed to sail the ship. Realism mod
It seems to affect only realism mode according to the description, it would be nice if it worked in arcade too.
Click to expand...
Although it appears confusing, this mod is independent from the Arcade/Realistic Game Mode toggle in the latest modpack release.
I suppose the description was made to indicate that it is a mod for the sake of realism. We only changed from Realistic Sailing Mode to Realistic GAME Mode after this was added. Before that, all that was different was the sailing characteristics.

Redeye said:
int ARCADE_MULT_SPEED = 2;
// Shipspeed if you set the menu "Options/Sailing mode" to ARCADE MODE
// 1: Same speed as in "Realistic Mode"
// 2: Twice as fast (default setting)
// 3: 3x as fast etc.
Click to expand...
We should be able to arrange that; I'd have to double-check if the code would accept it if we changed it to float, but I don't really see a problem with that.
 
Pieter Boelen said:
Redeye said:
bool SAIL_DAMAGE_TURNRATE = true;
// 0: No change to turnrate based on sail damage
// 1: Sail damage influences turnrate. Below 7.5% ship will not be able to turn at all
I would like this setting to stay for arcade I m just playing arcade because I find the ship a bit slow in realism mode but I do want damage to affect sails.
Click to expand...
It should be possible to have the Realistic Game Mode with somewhat faster ships.
Would you be interested in that?

Redeye said:
int ARCADE_MULT_SPEED = 2;
// Shipspeed if you set the menu "Options/Sailing mode" to ARCADE MODE
// 1: Same speed as in "Realistic Mode"
// 2: Twice as fast (default setting)
// 3: 3x as fast etc.
Click to expand...
We should be able to arrange that; I'd have to double-check if the code would accept it if we changed it to float, but I don't really see a problem with that.
Click to expand...

I would really love that if the speed of ships in realism mod could be tweaked maybe value like 1.5 the speed of arcade.
 
Open PROGRAM\SEA_AI\AIShip.c and find:
Code: 
	if (bArcadeMode)
{
arCharShip.MaxSpeedZ = ARCADE_MULT_SPEED * stf(arCharShip.MaxSpeedZ);
arCharShip.MaxSpeedY =	ARCADE_MULT_TURN* stf(arCharShip.MaxSpeedY);
}
Replace with:
Code: 
	if (bArcadeMode)
{
arCharShip.MaxSpeedZ = ARCADE_MULT_SPEED * stf(arCharShip.MaxSpeedZ);
arCharShip.MaxSpeedY =	ARCADE_MULT_TURN* stf(arCharShip.MaxSpeedY);
}
else
{
arCharShip.MaxSpeedZ = 1.5 * stf(arCharShip.MaxSpeedZ);
}
That should make the ship speed in Realistic Game Mode 1.5 x the speed it would otherwise be.
If that indeed works for you, let us know and we can see about recoding the toggle to take a float value.
Though admittedly the toggle works for Arcade Game Mode and wouldn't make a difference in Realistic. The above code should.
 
That worked perfectly thanks :onya now I have my ships somewhere between realistically slow and motorboat fast.
It seems that the turning speed is a bit behind the forward speed compared to the arcade feel. That turning factor setting might actually be of use there. I'll try to toy a bit with it .
Or would adding a similar line that you added but replacing the z with y would work in case that turning factor setting is deleted later ?
 
Pieter Boelen said:
Redeye said:
I don't understand why you want to remove options. I find that one of the great thing about this game is that we can personalize precisely it to our taste. Removing and/or associating options with game mode would be a big step backward against the small step forward that would be a cleaner option interface.
Its not like you are some wii developer trying to sell it to some kids with low attention span who will get a headache reading a few options line.

Maybe make an option menu with the basic options that you think everyone will use then a submenu for advanced option that you think are less used.This way the option will look clean without limiting the game personalization.
Click to expand...
Thanks a lot for your comments! The main reason for removing stuff is to prevent having dozens of options for the players to sift through; no choice is not good, but too much choice isn't either.
While it's beyond my abilities to add a second menu, what we can do is to not remove any of the options except those we REALLY want to lose, and move all the other non-simple options into PROGRAM\InternalSettings.h .
That way, advanced players could still tweak the game as fully as they always could, but regular players wouldn't get confused by the existance of the toggles.

On a related subject, one of the things I DO like about having different toggles for all the different mods is that they're still all in a central file and I generally can find them.
And once you find the toggle code line, it's pretty simple to find the code that the toggle is related to. I've used that quite a bit in the past to find where various mods can be found in the code.
Click to expand...
I think that would be a good compromise to leave the advanced settings modifiable in that file.
But different toggle for different mode seems a bit restrictive to me if they cant be changed more precisely later. Some player may like realistic ship navigation but not like more complex first person fight for example for some player it might be the opposite.
In my case i have most of the realism option on for navigation as well as the option to change flag but disable ammo/powder for handguns,non ability to recharge gun with sword drawn, auto skill level, random starting skill.

Maybe different modes could have different default values (like those suggested in this topic) set automatically but those values are still changeable by the player if necessary. Ie: the realistic mode would have all the realistic settings on by default and the arcade mode all the arcadeish settings on by default.
But if someone wanted to, they could still toggle a few realistic or arcade settings by going in that option pannel (or in the .h file for more advanced ones) to change the game more precisely to their taste.
 
I like the idea of having the defaults depend on the game mode but allow the player to change it anyway.
Not sure how to do that code-wise but it should be possible. But not if we put the setting in InternalSettings, because the #defines can't be changed through code.

For the turnrate in Realistic Game Mode, try this:
Code: 
	if (bArcadeMode)
{
arCharShip.MaxSpeedZ = ARCADE_MULT_SPEED * stf(arCharShip.MaxSpeedZ);
arCharShip.MaxSpeedY =	ARCADE_MULT_TURN* stf(arCharShip.MaxSpeedY);
}
Replace with:
Code: 
	if (bArcadeMode)
{
arCharShip.MaxSpeedZ = ARCADE_MULT_SPEED * stf(arCharShip.MaxSpeedZ);
arCharShip.MaxSpeedY =	ARCADE_MULT_TURN* stf(arCharShip.MaxSpeedY);
}
else
{
arCharShip.MaxSpeedZ = 1.5 * stf(arCharShip.MaxSpeedZ);
arCharShip.MaxSpeedY =	[WHATEVER YOU WANT] * stf(arCharShip.MaxSpeedY);
}
 
float DIALOG_CAMERA = 0.0;
// 0.1 - 1.0: Camera will be moved to the side during dialog, for full scene viewing
// 0.0: Stock PotC dialogs
Probably keep this.

bool ENABLE_BROTHEL = false;
// 0: Stock PotC: no brothel in QC
// 1: Brothel location opened; a bit explicit, but in WORDS only
For the sake of the storylines using the brothels, could we remove this option or at least turn it on by default?
The dialogs have been toned down from what they were.

bool PORT_FASTTRAVEL_MOD = true;
// How the 'Fast Travel' action places you when you go to "Port"
// 0: Stock PotC: arrive at gates facing the docks and ocean
// 1: Places you at the end of pier right where your rowboat is
We can probably remove this; I can't quite see people feeling the need to change this.

bool ENABLE_BUILDINGSET = true;
// 0: New towns have the same look as the stock PotC locations
// 1: "additional" buildings in some new locations
Definitely keep this one.

int NO_THEFT = 0;
// You can now pick pockets. But this is risky, and other thieves may pick YOUR pocket too.
// 0 - 60 : The higher this value the safer you are from pickpockets
// Above 30 nobody picks YOUR pocket, above 60 you yourself get no chance to steal
How about we remove this?

int LOCK_OPEN = 0;
// 0- 70: the higher this value the higher your chance of picking the locks of treasurechests
// Above 66 chests always open, above 33 you won't hurt yourself anymore ;-)
How about we remove this?

float SKELETON_CHANCE = 0.15;
// 0.0: All enemies in dungeons will be "realistic" smugglers
// 0.1 - 1.0: The higher this value the more enemies will be haunted skeletons
This doesn't work anymore; we decided to do away with random-encounter skeletons altogether,
They can now only be found in various quest situations.

float MUMMY_CHANCE = 0.15;
// 0.0: All enemies in jungles AT NIGHT will be "realistic" natives
// 0.1 - 1.0: The higher this value the more enemies will be haunted mummies
Same as above; no longer used.

bool REAL_CARIBBEAN = true;
// 0: Stock island and town names
// 1: Use proper island and town names
Probably keep this. Though would anyone want to use the original game's island names?
Note that some of the coding required for renaming the islands back to their original game names isn't done for recent quest updates.

bool LOC_CAMERA = false;
// 0: Near doors camera view will stay locked to view FROM player
// 1: Stock PotC: Near doors camera will swerve and focus ON the playercharacter
Keep this.

int ONSEA_COMPASS = 1;
// 0: Stock PotC: Compass rose is blue
// 1: Orange transparent compass
// 2: Historical brass compass
Keep this.

bool DISPLAY_DATE = true;
// Show current day in the upper part of the screen in form "Monday, 11th June 1550"
// 0: turn off (disables also DISPLAY_TIME)
// 1: turn on
Remove and have always on; can't hurt to have it there, can it?

int DISPLAY_TIME = 1;
// Show a clock in the upper part of the screen. Requires DISPLAY_DATE=true.
// 0: Never show the clock
// 1: Only if you have a clock equipped
// 2: Always show the clock
Always show time in Arcade Game Mode and only with a clock equipped in Realistic Game Mode?

bool DISPLAY_BATTLEINTERFACE = false;
// Show the BattleInterface compass/chart display
// 0: Only if you have a compass equipped
// 1: Depending on the settings in the options menu
Same as above.

bool DISPLAY_MAP_POSITION = false;
// Display the position of your ship on the Map Interface
// 0: Only if you have a Sextant and a Chronometer
// 1: Always display your ship's position
Same as above.

int DEFAULT_SAILS = 3;
// 0: Stock PotC: Common ships plain white, pirates plain black
// 1: 'Normal' sails (parus)
// 2: All ships pure white sails
// 3: All ships 'Weathered' Sails
// 4: Common ships emblemed white sails, pirates emblemed black sails
Keep this. I think there's several people who like using the emblemed or pure white sails instead.
Maybe link with Arcade/Realistic Game Mode: Realistic = Build default "weathered sails". Arcade = "Emblemed sails"?

bool PIRATES_BLACK_SAILS = false;
// 0: Pirates use the same sails as DEFAULT_SAILS (set above)
// 1: Pirates use emblemed black sails
Keep this. Maybe link with Arcade/Realistic Game Mode: Realistic = Pirates don't use black sails. Arcade = Pirates DO use black sails.

int SHIPHIT_PARTICLES = 3;
// The higher the setting the more effects (choose a lower setting if you get performance problems)
// 0: Stock PotC (red-orange explosion on hit)
// 1: Minimal hit effects (small puffs of gray smoke)
// 2: Recommended hit effects (puffs and splinters)
// 3: Excessive hit debris effects (plumes of planks and barrels, water splashes, flashes and smoke - ship explosions extensive)
Can remove this setting; I can't quite see the particle effects in a game this old being so heavy people have to turn it down.

int USE_PARTICLES = 2;
// Sets the amount of effects in the Greenford's haunted Abbey and various other particle situations
// 0: Off
// 1: Few effects
// 2: Full effects
Same as above.
 
the pickpocketing can really ruin your day. i turn it off. same for the trapped chests, though they're not nearly as bad as the pickpockets. really, someone pickpocketing you nearly always makes the whole town go to hell, and it's just lovely if it happens in the middle of a cutscene.

i always give the pirates black sails. but that's just me making it easier for myself to spot them.
 
Pieter Boelen said:
I like the idea of having the defaults depend on the game mode but allow the player to change it anyway.
Not sure how to do that code-wise but it should be possible. But not if we put the setting in InternalSettings, because the #defines can't be changed through code.

For the turnrate in Realistic Game Mode, try this:
Code: 
	if (bArcadeMode)
{
arCharShip.MaxSpeedZ = ARCADE_MULT_SPEED * stf(arCharShip.MaxSpeedZ);
arCharShip.MaxSpeedY =	ARCADE_MULT_TURN* stf(arCharShip.MaxSpeedY);
}
Replace with:
Code: 
	if (bArcadeMode)
{
arCharShip.MaxSpeedZ = ARCADE_MULT_SPEED * stf(arCharShip.MaxSpeedZ);
arCharShip.MaxSpeedY =	ARCADE_MULT_TURN* stf(arCharShip.MaxSpeedY);
}
else
{
arCharShip.MaxSpeedZ = 1.5 * stf(arCharShip.MaxSpeedZ);
arCharShip.MaxSpeedY =	[WHATEVER YOU WANT] * stf(arCharShip.MaxSpeedY);
}
Click to expand...
Thank you that worked great :onya
I agree with the keeping of the no theft setting, I find thieves really annoying sometimes.
 
Pieter Boelen said:
float LDH_TURN_RATE_FACTOR = 1.5;
// Makes ships turn faster. Normal game 1.0, fast game 2.0
The current ship sailing characteristics are based on this value of 1.5 for Realistic Game Mode.
I think we can remove this setting and just have it always be 1.5.
Click to expand...


I never knew this and have always set it to "1".


Ironman should come with some sort of compass right from the start. Otherwise any player can get completely lost.
 
i've been able to get around without nav instruments. that includes charts. i did it completely from memory though, watching my flag for the wind direction and the shoreline for an estimated position. in a gunboat, back in the alpha.

uphill.

through the snow.

anyway, playing at iron man difficulty when you're a new player seems like a pretty stupid idea to me, and the compass not showing if you don't have one equipped would be pointless if you'd always have a compass anyway. besides, the effect of difficulty on gameplay would be displayed before starting a new game anyway, right?
 
The exact description of Realistic/Arcade Game Mode isn't in the game itself, though maybe we could put it in the About Build interface.
It IS in the Documentation folder, but maybe a bit hard to find. That's why I made a proper write-up and posted it on the ModDB here:
http://www.moddb.com/mods/new-horizons/features/arcade-realistic-and-iron-man-game-mode

Iron Man Mode is explained properly in the Advanced Options interface, though this is easier than the other two modes because Iron Man mode doesn't actually change many different things.
 
Hawat on the ModDB wrote:
The advanced options that I don't think are needed are those that don't seem to affect gameplay much but are more like cheat like player starting level/money/wealth, the brothel, lock open setting then the gfx options that probably don't affect most players now like particles and effects.
Also being able to change spyglass back to realistic in arcade game mode and being able to make it unmoded in realistic game mode would be nice.
Click to expand...
So does anyone have any further/final thoughts on what we'll do. And what exactly SHOULD be the difference between Realistic and Arcade Game Mode?
 
Pieter Boelen said:
Redeye said:
I don't understand why you want to remove options. I find that one of the great thing about this game is that we can personalize precisely it to our taste. Removing and/or associating options with game mode would be a big step backward against the small step forward that would be a cleaner option interface.
Its not like you are some wii developer trying to sell it to some kids with low attention span who will get a headache reading a few options line.

Maybe make an option menu with the basic options that you think everyone will use then a submenu for advanced option that you think are less used.This way the option will look clean without limiting the game personalization.
Click to expand...

Thanks a lot for your comments! The main reason for removing stuff is to prevent having dozens of options for the players to sift through; no choice is not good, but too much choice isn't either.
While it's beyond my abilities to add a second menu, what we can do is to not remove any of the options except those we REALLY want to lose, and move all the other non-simple options into PROGRAM\InternalSettings.h .
That way, advanced players could still tweak the game as fully as they always could, but regular players wouldn't get confused by the existance of the toggles.
Click to expand...

In principle I agree with Redeye - one of the great strengths of the game is that you can play it in many different ways and the various options mean that you can tune the game to suit your style of play - or the type of game you want it to be.

I don't really like the idea of removing an option and saying this will be incorporated into Arcade mode or Realistic mode -and the option being of fixed value in that mode.
It is a pity that you can't create new menus since then you could under Realism Settings when you select either Arcade or Realistic get a sub-menu of Advanced options for that mode of play.

If you are going to put things in to the InternalSettings.h file then you should put some text explaining this in the options menu screen saying things have been moved there and how to access them. Putting the explanation in somewhere like the About Build section will ensure that nobody reads it.

I also don't think there are an excessive number of options - though one or two may now be obsolete.

I am going to have to leave going through the list until tomorrow but will give you my thoughts as soon as I can.

Changing this is not something that should be rushed - unless it is easy to alter things again if people don't like it.

:doff
 
I would give my two cents worth, but having read the recent posts, it seems those who actually play the game regularly have a much better idea of what they're talking about than most of us modders do... so I'll leave them to it. :wp
 
It's fairly easy to mess around with adding/removing options. Quite possibly we'll end up with not removing all that much and only the really useless stuff.
You're thoughts would be very much appreciated, Talisman, so I hope you'll find some time to write them up. :bow

For InternalSettings.h, I'd prefer if "regular" players ("regular" meaning "most of them") would not need to touch it and only the people who are really picky (no offense) would need to go there.
It's not supposed to be a file that needs to be commonly touched, but it's a good place to put more complex settings that most people would leave alone.
 
Armada said:
I would give my two cents worth, but having read the recent posts, it seems those who actually play the game regularly have a much better idea of what they're talking about than most of us modders do... so I'll leave them to it. :wp
Click to expand...
Whahaha! Very true, that. Seems that they've got whooole different thought than me as well. Which is fair enough and nothing less than I expected and hoped for.
That's why we're having this thread in the first place. To ensure the coders who don't play the game much (read: me) DON'T mess things up for those who DO play it. :wp

Still, I would be very interested in anything you've got to say on the subject. Any opinion is a valid one, in my book. Unless they're stupid, but I'm certain yours aren't. :razz
 
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