Improvement of the HMS Victory.

[Pieter Boelen]

I think I'd rather wait until pgargon fixes the reverse lighting bug for all his ships; I can then include the PotC versions of them, as well as my WIP stuff, all at once.
At least, that sounds more convenient to me.

Fine by me. As I said, I'm not in too much of a rush because I'm doing other things first anyway.
As long as we can get as much as possible done soon so we can make Beta 2 before I leave again in December.

I was thinking that these should be given a name different to Victory (like SotL), but still with FR_/US_, of course.
Sort of like how the Constitution re-textures were named BattleFrigates.

Yep, makes sense. Maybe indeed use SotL and just replace the existing Endeavour retextures with the new Victory retextures.
Saves recoding too.

 

[Armada]

Maybe indeed use SotL and just replace the existing Endeavour retextures with the new Victory retextures.
Saves recoding too.

Yes and no. :? The Endeavour model is a 90-Gun ship; Victory is 104, and has different characteristics.
It's easier to copy Victory's stats and rename the model to FR_SotL etc, rather than adjust the Endeavour's stats.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Uhm... well, then do whatever works for you.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Um... I can start the screenshot coding, I guess. No idea how long it will take, though.
When you say it like that, it does seem that we're getting much closer to Beta 2!

That'd be much appreciated. Maybe miklkit would even be willing to help you if you explain him how it works?
It would be a very cool project to have finished in Beta 2. And I reckon we need some good finished projects for Beta 2.
After all, it can't just be Patch 4 with some added stuff. I want some additional stuff done and cleaned up and such.

 

[Armada]

I'll certainly collaborate with miklkit to get the pics as good as they can be, and I'll see what he says if I ask him about coding.
I know what you mean about finishing lots of things; it'll really help Beta 2 to look and feel improved and more 'polished', so to speak.

 

[Hylie Pistof]

Erk. Coding? Gulp. I should say here that I have a poor memory and keep forgetting what I'm doing. I am best utilized doing the repetitive work like those pics. Then there is the fact that I have never done coding at all. Other than that, I do have a lot of free time.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

In this case, the coding involved IS rather repetitive work.

But there's also another important project that needs to be done that maybe you'd be more interested in?
http://forum.piratesahoy.net/topic/13281-making-capture-town-boarding-locators/

 

[zorglub]

Here's what I'm on about, after having edited the textures slightly:
French re-texture
American re-texture

I must say, this red-and-black color scheme for French Royal Navy is still severely bugging me... It's often claimed to be historical, but to what degree? Anybody knows exactly from around what years it was used, and during how much time?

And I thought the US would only have a few elite frigates as their biggest ships? Now they have a huge line ship?

Finally, and slightly off-topic - you now have decided that they'll be several steam ships, haven't you? Actually, I liked the original idea, which was only one 'experimental' steam ship at the very end of the eras our game cover, and as a bonus, a funny easter egg... Well, more funny that the shotgun, for our fellow bug-slayers I mean.

 

[modernknight1]

Mates, I'm in total agreement about the French paint scheme. The Spanish used red way more than the French. Funny enough even the British used red at times. There's even anecdotal evidence of Nelson changing his Squadrons paint from red to yellow when he got orders for the Med. I've looked in a lot of books and museum sources and find that French ships were predominantly yellow and black. http://www.cbx41.com/article-20996944-6.html

I've found no evidence for a National Paint scheme for the whole French fleet during the Age of Sail. I think it was dictated by the area and Admiral.

As far as American Ships of the Line go, there weren't lots of em, but they did exist. I won't include the later ones built during the 1840s-70s. However, early on (earlier than the steam ships in POTC), Congress passed a bill in 1809 authorizing nine to be built. Out of that 9, only 6 were ever layed down and out of the 6, only 4 were actually completed and saw service. The USS Franklin (launched 1815), USS Columbus (launched 1819), USS Deleware (launched 1820) were all 2nd rates of 74 guns. The USS Pensylvania (launched 1820) was a 1st rate of 120 guns, but was so large, was able to accomodate 140 guns.

Here's some pics:

MK

http://www.flickr.com/photos/49225014@N05/sets/72157625201505301/

 

[Armada]

Erk. Coding? Gulp. I should say here that I have a poor memory and keep forgetting what I'm doing. I am best utilized doing the repetitive work like those pics. Then there is the fact that I have never done coding at all. Other than that, I do have a lot of free time.

As Pieter said, the coding is repetitive. It's all in RESOURCE->INI->INTERFACES->pictures.ini, and goes like this:

picture	= Tartane1,384,128,512,256

Following the pattern: [model name],[coordinates of top left pixel of picture],[coordinates of bottom right pixel of picture]
Since all the pictures will be contained in one huge file, this will obviously become VERY repetitive. But also fairly easy, since the coordinates will neatly be multiples of 256.
Not that I'm discouraging you from helping out. I'd hate to do it all by me oneseys.

Finally, and slightly off-topic - you now have decided that they'll be several steam ships, haven't you? Actually, I liked the original idea, which was only one 'experimental' steam ship at the very end of the eras our game cover, and as a bonus, a funny easter egg... Well, more funny that the shotgun, for our fellow bug-slayers I mean.

I think they're all intended to be experimental, and extremely rare, in the last period. Or as a laugh if you get them from Vanderdecken.
Interestingly, I think there is some historical accuracy here. Perhaps out by a couple of years, but there were steam prototypes by that time, I think.
If they're too 'common', they can be made even rarer, you know. Rarer than massive 1st Rates.

I've found no evidence for a National Paint scheme for the whole French fleet during the Age of Sail. I think it was dictated by the area and Admiral.

I think on the topic of national colour schemes, there is a line that must be drawn between reality and gameplay.
It may well get far too confusing if we made things 100% accurate, even if it is possible.
I believe that, for the game's sake, it's a good idea to have a distinctive colour scheme for each navy, so that any player can begin to recognise which ships are which.

Congress passed a bill in 1809 authorizing nine to be built. Out of that 9, only 6 were ever layed down and out of the 6, only 4 were actually completed and saw service. The USS Franklin (launched 1815), USS Columbus (launched 1819), USS Deleware (launched 1820) were all 2nd rates of 74 guns. The USS Pensylvania (launched 1820) was a 1st rate of 120 guns, but was so large, was able to accomodate 140 guns.

By coincidence, USS Pensylvania was the ship I thought of when I saw the white Victory re-texture. I knew she was at least launched in the early 1800's.
So clearly the US need to have 74+ gun ships limited to the last period, to be correct historically.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

I must say, this red-and-black color scheme for French Royal Navy is still severely bugging me... It's often claimed to be historical, but to what degree? Anybody knows exactly from around what years it was used, and during how much time?

I will claim to not know historical realism as much as you do. However, I like the national colour schemes for the sake of gameplay value.
After all, since in Realistic Game Mode your spyglass doesn't automatically tell you the nation, it's good to have other means of knowing.
Of course the flags help, but you need to be really close for those.

As for the French having a black-and-red colour scheme, whether it's historical or not,
that colour scheme IS used in the Master and Commander and Hornblower films.
So people might be familiar with it, which could be another reason to use it.

Finally, and slightly off-topic - you now have decided that they'll be several steam ships, haven't you? Actually, I liked the original idea, which was only one 'experimental' steam ship at the very end of the eras our game cover, and as a bonus, a funny easter egg...

The French, British and United States all have a steamship. They can be randomly encountered at sea, but shoul be very rare.
They appear in the last two periods, the chance in the last period being a bit higher than in the other. They're also buyable from Vanderdecken.

Well, more funny that the shotgun, for our fellow bug-slayers I mean.

That bug's been annoying me for a LONG time. They're coded to NOT appear at random. But they still do.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

As Pieter said, the coding is repetitive. It's all in RESOURCE->INI->INTERFACES->pictures.ini, and goes like this:

picture	= Tartane1,384,128,512,256

Following the pattern: [model name],[coordinates of top left pixel of picture],[coordinates of bottom right pixel of picture]
Since all the pictures will be contained in one huge file, this will obviously become VERY repetitive. But also fairly easy, since the coordinates will neatly be multiples of 256.

I'm pretty sure the [model name] in your code lines is not used anywhere.
You're better served naming them "ship1", "ship2", etc. just like the items are just "itm1", "itm2", etc.
That way, once you've got the code for one square set of pictures, you can just copy it for the rest with no further adjustment.
Should be much easier.

 

[zorglub]

The French, British and United States all have a steamship. They can be randomly encountered at sea, but shoul be very rare.
They appear in the last two periods, the chance in the last period being a bit higher than in the other.

The last two time periods, that'd be 'Revolutions' (1770-1789) and 'the Corsican' (1790-1820)... Isn't that a bit... early? I thought the steamships of these kind were first built around 1840...

As for the French having a black-and-red colour scheme, whether it's historical or not,
that colour scheme IS used in the Master and Commander and Hornblower films.
So people might be familiar with it, which could be another reason to use it.

I am unsure about this. It would greatly surprise me if there was that much people having those movies as only or main references. You know, I had never heard about Hornblower before joining this forum, for instance...

Talking of time period... we might consider ajusting them at one point or another. A period called 'Revolutions' that ends in 1789 sounds quite funny! In the Caribbean, the American Independance war looked just like the others, only that this time England didn't have the advantage. Ships were captured or sunk, islands were occupied than given back in the peace treaty - nothing out of the ordinary. On the other hand, the French Revolution had a huge impact, mainly because of the aboliton of slavery. Revolutionary movements did arose in the Caribbean, and the basis of the social hierarchy was shaked. Of course not all islands were touched the same way, if at all, but well, everybody have heard of Haiti and Toussaint Louverture, haven't they? The second Independant state in America after the US, that's something.
I would personaly make 'the corsican' time period start in 1800, at the begining of the Consulate.
Of course, that would make some piece of code more complex, for example the period-dependant flags.

Well, more funny that the shotgun, for our fellow bug-slayers I mean.

That bug's been annoying me for a LONG time. They're coded to NOT appear at random. But they still do.

I know, that's why I mentioned it

 

[morgan terror]

i haven't been finding the shotgun in random drops so far, nor the nicolas sharp sabre. it seems to be working at least reasonably well.

 

[Armada]

I'm pretty sure the [model name] in your code lines is not used anywhere.

Wait a sec, are you sure? Because, I just noticed that the Endeavour model's interface pic doesn't show up in-game (with the current code).
I realised that, in pictures.ini, it's named 'Endeavour' and not 'HMS_Endeavour', the latter being the model name. I changed it, and after a reinit in-game, guess what? Picture shows up.

The last two time periods, that'd be 'Revolutions' (1770-1789) and 'the Corsican' (1790-1820)... Isn't that a bit... early? I thought the steamships of these kind were first built around 1840...

I thought they were only in the last period. Perhaps that does need changing.

It would greatly surprise me if there was that much people having those movies as only or main references. You know, I had never heard about Hornblower before joining this forum, for instance...

Me neither. I've just sort of gone with the colour schemes in-game, although I do remember seeing Acheron in red and black, too.

Talking of time period... we might consider ajusting them at one point or another. A period called 'Revolutions' that ends in 1789 sounds quite funny!
[...]
I would personaly make 'the corsican' time period start in 1800, at the begining of the Consulate.
Of course, that would make some piece of code more complex, for example the period-dependant flags.

When was it decided what the time periods would be in the game? Sounds like they were based on some of the storylines...?
And I'd guess that most code refers to a period number, and not a year time-scale. I may be wrong, though.

 

[zorglub]

When was it decided what the time periods would be in the game? Sounds like they were based on some of the storylines...?
And I'd guess that most code refers to a period number, and not a year time-scale. I may be wrong, though.

If I remember well, time periods were decided independantly. We then tried to give each time period at least one storyline.
Periods are defined in Periods.c, and are given a starting & ending year.

 

[Talisman]

i haven't been finding the shotgun in random drops so far, nor the nicolas sharp sabre. it seems to be working at least reasonably well.

I have managed to get both the shotgun and Sri Sumbhajee's pistol recently when looting corpses of jungle robbers

:ixi

 

[morgan terror]

yeah, the pistol is easily found. i always find it at the very beginning of the game, and then rarely ever again.

...how did we get on this topic?

 

[Pieter Boelen]

We could easily limit the steamships to only the last period. I don't even know why they're in two periods at the moment.
I'm also thinking I'd like them in Master and Commander, but NOT Hornblower. At least not randomly.
However, Hornblower is in the last period and Master and Commander isn't, so that complicates matters.

Since the game coding deals in Periods and not specific years for all the Period stuff, I don't think things matter as much as they otherwise would.
For me, the most important thing is that each period is different. Though historical realism is a plus.

As for the national colour schemes, at the moment, we've got the French as black-and-red,
so it'd be easier to go with that rather than changing it. Otherwise we'd have to reskin all specific French ships. :?

Wait a sec, are you sure? Because, I just noticed that the Endeavour model's interface pic doesn't show up in-game (with the current code).
I realised that, in pictures.ini, it's named 'Endeavour' and not 'HMS_Endeavour', the latter being the model name. I changed it, and after a reinit in-game, guess what? Picture shows up.

Doesn't the picture ALSO show up if you just reload the game and perform a reinit without changing the name in the INI files?
I am pretty sure it's unrelated. Note also that you might need to give yourself the ship again after a reinit for the changes to apply to your ship.
So basically if you make an adjustment in a code file, you have to close the game, restart and load your savegame,
then perform a reinit and then give you your ship again through the console. Then the change should take effect properly.

 

[Armada]

Doesn't the picture ALSO show up if you just reload the game and perform a reinit without changing the name in the INI files?

How does that work? Before changing the name, that particular interface picture for the Endeavour ships would not show in-game.
I have tried different ways of ensuring the changes take effect, the best one being to reload the savegame, press F11 and then give the ship via the console.

There does seem to be a problem, however. Some model names are not even listed, and when added, do not make any changes.
For example, Battleship2.