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Released Frigate "Rossiya", 1728

More progress: I've added the yards, replaced the boats, slightly adjusted the bowsprit, and done half of the main shrouds (because it's easier to correct any mistakes before mirroring them).
The yard sizes and positions were mostly guesswork based on the wooden model, but I think they're about right.

Frigate1_new45.jpg


As for the boats, I took the model from the Centurion to use as the longboat, and made slight changes to the smaller boat. I didn't change the paint schemes, though that can be done.
My only query is about stowing them properly. Below is the best compromise I could come up with for now:

Frigate1_new46.jpg


I think the wooden model has the seats removed from the longboat to allow the smaller one to fit inside it, but I didn't know if that was a suitable solution. Am I right in saying some of the seats are meant to be permanently fixed for other purposes?
You'll also notice the spare yard I've added. Another one is stowed on the other side as well.
I'll add some ropes to secure those and the boats once we're happy with the layout.

Finally, here's a close up of the shrouds, including resized deadeyes (and those metal objects beneath them that I don't know the name of):

Frigate1_new47.jpg


The deadeyes will be painted black when both sides are completed. I know there are missing futtock shrouds as well, but I haven't forgotten them. ;)
 
its four in the morning...
good progress for a nights work!
Just coming out of a long session of East india companies.... what a bunch of boring, silly, shallow, Bull. Well the Graphics is nice.

Okay, here comes the sunday morning nagging session:
(I apologise for the lack of proper termonilogy...)
(hell no, actually i don't!)

The Boats, DO they NEED a new paintjob? i do not think so.
The brown seems okay to me, if a bit vivid. but the game will tone that down. What i appreciate is the quality. These are clearly boats that can, in certain combinations be sort of "stacked together", as the wooden fittings show.
Not knowing how such boats are built, i would say the longboat needs the seats to keep the hull in shape.

If they are removed in the wooden model, do we conclude that the longboat was built with ribs like big ships, and not only planking?
In that case, i would say the smaller boat can be stored upright, and lowered inside the longboat.
Longboat seats are dismounted and stores inside the Longboat itself.
something to row them, and a pair of Ropes as tie-downs...
Presto.

Details that bring a deck alive.
Thumbs up!
 
The benches all would have been removed, with the smaller boat stored upright. (Free poly reduction! Hooray!) They would have been resting in place, usually held there by gravity alone, and not structural at all. Some boats had ribs, and some didn't but the ones without were constructed with overlapping planking for added strength. The ones without ribs were just as common, or even more common, than the ones with, and they had similar strengths. Those have flush planks, so you can tell that they were ribbed.

At any rate, the amount of weight created by the smaller boat would have been insignificant; you can easily lift one that size with about ten men. Leaving the benches in would actually do both boats more damage then if you removed them. You would just be directing all the wight to the weaker flat boards and the larger boat's sides, rather than its keel.

The rudders were also removed sometimes, but that may not be necessary here. I'll dig up some diagrams of proper boat and spar stowage tomorrow.
Edit: Maybe even Sunday. I'm going to have to spend the day putting up Pilgrim's Christmas lights, and by the time I get home, I'll be about ready to collapse. (Why is putting up Christmas lights harder than rigging five hundred pound sails?)

I'll also try to get more random pictures of stuff that might help. Any requests? I'll be spending a lot of time aloft tomorrow, so if you want anything form up there, I can try to pull my camera out during a lull in the torturous holiday decorating.

Edit: Missing stuff, don't know if you've gotten to yet... T'gallantmast shrouds (should end two or three feet above the t'gallant yard)
I'm not quite sure if the sheet anchors will be able to stay up there without any kind of lashing. :p I know I have some diagrams for that. I'll pull those out too.

I would expect there to be t'gallantmast backstays, but it's hard to tell with those older vessels. As they are now, the t'gallantmasts can't bear too much sail.

Oh, and the metal things are called chain plates, by the way. That's why the projections that they are attached to are called the channels- an abbreviation of chain-whales.

Oops. Another essay. :facepalm
 
A wonderfull ship, indeed excited for her release!! Could you think of a version with 3 laterns, like pgargons unicorn?
 
Post Captain said:
The benches all would have been removed, with the smaller boat stored upright. (Free poly reduction! Hooray!) They would have been resting in place, usually held there by gravity alone, and not structural at all. Some boats had ribs, and some didn't but the ones without were constructed with overlapping planking for added strength. The ones without ribs were just as common, or even more common, than the ones with, and they had similar strengths. Those have flush planks, so you can tell that they were ribbed.

At any rate, the amount of weight created by the smaller boat would have been insignificant; you can easily lift one that size with about ten men. Leaving the benches in would actually do both boats more damage then if you removed them. You would just be directing all the wight to the weaker flat boards and the larger boat's sides, rather than its keel.
Click to expand...
That makes things simpler, I guess. :onya

Post Captain said:
I'll also try to get more random pictures of stuff that might help. Any requests? I'll be spending a lot of time aloft tomorrow, so if you want anything form up there, I can try to pull my camera out during a lull in the torturous holiday decorating.
Click to expand...
Hmm... perhaps some photos of the tops? The undersides are already quite well detailed on the model, but the top halves probably need some work (they're completely flat), so a good reference would be useful.

Post Captain said:
Edit: Missing stuff, don't know if you've gotten to yet... T'gallantmast shrouds (should end two or three feet above the t'gallant yard)
I'm not quite sure if the sheet anchors will be able to stay up there without any kind of lashing. :p I know I have some diagrams for that. I'll pull those out too.

I would expect there to be t'gallantmast backstays, but it's hard to tell with those older vessels. As they are now, the t'gallantmasts can't bear too much sail.
Click to expand...
I'll need to redo the topmast shrouds anyway (they were pre-built), and I was planning on adding the t-gallantmast ones at the same time.
Lashing on the anchors is something I hadn't got to, but any diagrams would be appreciated to help with that.
I think there probably should be backstays for them. I had a look at the wooden model, and you can just about make see them as thin black lines.

Takeda-One said:
A wonderfull ship, indeed excited for her release!! Could you think of a version with 3 laterns, like pgargons unicorn?
Click to expand...
Thanks! I could add another two lanterns, but what I had planned was to add a couple of lanterns to the gun deck instead, which would be a unique feature (I think) for CoAS. ;)
 
Thanks mate. The masts were actually derived from the ones on our HMS Greyhound 1720 model. They only needed slight adjustments model-wise to fit the ship, though I ended up completely remapping them to use a better texture.
I don't have a side shot yet, but I can arrange one for the next update. :)

philipjn said:
As for boat stowage, have looked at Arming and Fitting of English Ships of War 1600-1815, might find it useful as a reference:)
Click to expand...
I did check that, and it stated that it was "unlikely" that the method of stowing boats by 'nesting' was used in the "eighteenth century or before", instead being common in the nineteenth century. :read
 
Harland indicates that nesting was sometimes used before 1800. I also have a diagram illustrating the proper stowage of boats on a frigate like that. I'll get that up tomorrow. I'm afraid you'll have to wait until next week for a picture of the tops. That post came up a while after I left. :facepalm If we're lucky, I may already have some pictures of them. I'll take a look in my pictures directory.
 
Post Captain said:
I'm afraid you'll have to wait until next week for a picture of the tops. That post came up a while after I left. :facepalm If we're lucky, I may already have some pictures of them. I'll take a look in my pictures directory.
Click to expand...
Bloody time zones. :rolleyes: Never mind, if you can't find any reference photos, I'll look at the Centurion's masts for guidance.
 
I'll have to get those references uploaded tomorrow, due to some unexpected time constraints. I just realized that our tops won't make a good reference, since they are of a different design, without a solid floor. I would expect them to be similar to the ones on CA's brig.

Edit: I have some pictures of the tops of Surprise's tops that will work. I'll blow them up and upload them.
 
Post Captain said:
I just realized that our tops won't make a good reference, since they are of a different design, without a solid floor. I would expect them to be similar to the ones on CA's brig.
Click to expand...
So they would look like this, then? http://www.flickr.com/photos/64339105@N08/7001118120/in/photostream/
I would have expected them to be more similar to the Centurion, with several slanted bits of wood covering the top, arranged in a circular pattern around the mast.
I can't actually tell how it's done on the wooden model, because there aren't any photos taken from a good enough angle to see them.
 
Ah... I assumed you had already referenced the shape from the model. The circular arrangement would make much more sense for a vessel of that time period.
 
First, I would expect the anchor lashings to be made with thick marline.
(like this, but thicker)

I'll give you the link to all of the pictures, since they don't require too much explanation:

http://s780.beta.photobucket.com/user/Alexander_Ah/library/Ships

Notes for the pictures:
I would expect the cathead and its block to have three sheaves, since the anchors were extremely heavy.
I added the t'gallantmast and sprits'l stuff as bonus information.

Edit: I would also expect there to be more spare spars: At least an extra topmast and two extra t'gallantmasts. Those things broke a lot.

I would put the extra masts inside of the posts, holding the sides of the boat up like in the reference illustration, and leave the spare yard where it is.

One more thing: The height of the boat would make it awfully hard to get out of the main hatch.
 
That's excellent, thanks. Those images should be very useful. :onya

Post Captain said:
Notes for the pictures:
I would expect the cathead and its block to have three sheaves, since the anchors were extremely heavy.
I added the t'gallantmast and sprits'l stuff as bonus information.

Edit: I would also expect there to be more spare spars: At least an extra topmast and two extra t'gallantmasts. Those things broke a lot.

I would put the extra masts inside of the posts, holding the sides of the boat up like in the reference illustration, and leave the spare yard where it is.

One more thing: The height of the boat would make it awfully hard to get out of the main hatch.
Click to expand...
I see your point about the catheads and blocks. The ones on the model are pre-built approximations, probably made to save polygons, so it's no wonder they're not totally correct.
I will find some space for more spare spars (sounds like a new tongue twister, to me).

Good point about the main hatch as well. I believe the current height between it and the boat is about the same as the height depicted on the wooden model, so I can only assume the boat would have been removed when access to the main hatch was needed.
On that note, there is only one ladder between the gun deck and the weather deck, which is in front of the helm. Should there be at least one more somewhere, even though the other hatches are closed?
 
There should be ladders (or companionways, more properly.) under all the hatches where there is room, even if they are closed.

The main hatch should have at least two under them. I doubt that the main hatch would have been blocked like that. After all, when you have two hundred men trying to get on the weather deck quickly, you need all the room you can get. The main hatch has been the main point of hold access for all of the vessels of that size I've been on. If the boats were stored on top of the spare spars, with those resting on top of the framework the boats are presently on, that might increase clearance a little.\

Edit: anchor lashings should be of the roband form. Pictures coming after I get one tied and photographed.
 
Right. The lashing has been uploaded to the same link as the other pictures. I happened to have some period correct line around, so that's exactly what it would have looked like, only with thicker line and no railing. Note that the ends of the line would have been cut off, or more exactly measured to fit the lashing.
 
OK, in that case I can probably only fit a couple of them beneath the main hatch. The foremost hatch is just above the stove and riding bitts, and another one is directly above the area just fore of the capstan, so I reckon neither of those would be practical to fit companionways.

In addition to placing spare spars on the framework, I can probably tweak it further to increase the clearance.

EDIT: Thanks for the lashing photos. I'm sure I can fake that convincingly. ;)
 
Just finished tweaking the boats. I've added a spare fore topmast and a fore and main t'gallantmast to the top of the framework, and lifted the whole lot a bit further off the deck.
Also made both boats slightly wider, which in turn helped to raise them slightly because of where the longboat hull meets the spars.
How does it look? I'll add securing lines when we're satisfied with it.

Frigate1_new48.jpg
 
You could probably make the smaller boat less wide. It might just be the angle, but its bow looks a little tubby to me. Other than that, it looks good. I'll make a mockup of the lines securing the boats with the correct line arrangement and such.That should take just a few minutes. Can I get a screenshot of boats and ship from directly above? It's hard to determine where the lashing should be made off from that angle. It's either going to be a ring bolt on deck or on the framework.
 
That's some nice new detailing indeed! One thing that sprang to mind: Are you going to be adding some barrels and things on deck as well? Just so it isn't an empty deck either?
 
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