Sounds good to me. The old ones are just that. Old.
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PotC Build Mod Ship Cleanup
- Thread starter Pieter Boelen
- Start date
We can certainly do that. I know there are several RN textured ships that I'm really not very keen on, like RN_Brig_16gun...
For future reference, here's how the rates go from 3rd to 1st, according the RN system we're currently using:
- 3rd Rate: 64 - 84 guns
- 2nd Rate: 86 - 98 guns
- 1st Rate: 100+ guns
Going by that, the largest 3rd Rate is HMS Bellona, with 84 guns (after Pgargon added 6 carronades to the quarterdeck), and the only 2nd Rate warship is the 94-Gun SotL model.
The CS/Trinity would fit the SotL role almost perfectly. The only slight problem is that she's not modern enough for the late 18th/ early 19th centuries, so the US can't use her.
Wow i didnt know there was a unique second rate already in game! somehow i thought it was a retexture of the victory with some guns or gun locators removed, is it actually a completely different model from the victory? If it is different from the victory model completely, I would say keep it for the US and maybe for the last period or so in addition to a decreasing number of trinitys. Though it wouldnt be a big deal if the US didnt have any second rates, historically the only ships of the line they built were first rates and third rates, though I guess some of their larger '74' gun ships had 3 flush decks and carried enough guns to be considered second rates in any other navy.
oh, and I second that about the RN_Brig_16gun, not meant to be a naval ship at all..plus with the HMS speedy ingame theres no real need for her.
Here is a year old file pic of a 2nd rate. No one has touched them since AFAIK.
The SotL is unfortunately an old model ported from Voyage Century Online, and is fairly low-quality.
It was meant to be their 'best' attempt at the Victory, but it only has 94 guns (used to be 90, but was upgraded recently by Craiggo and myself).
For that reason, she's more suited to the last two time periods than the Christianus/Trinity of 1733.
If the US technically shouldn't have 2nd Rates, then that makes things easier. We could just give them a repainted Bellona model and ditch the SotL completely.
BTW, I just checked on Wikipedia for the RN rating system, and realised that I must have modified the one we used to avoid gaps.
The official one says 3rd Rates are from 64 - 80 guns, and 2nd Rates are 90 to 98 guns. I guess that's because there tended not to be any in-between values in reality.
However, some ships were known to carry more guns than their rating, but not enough to change the rating, which is like Bellona's case.
Good excuse to still keep the old US_SotL for a while longer; after all, you DID put a lot of effort into her to make her match the other ships in the game, right?Going by that, the largest 3rd Rate is HMS Bellona, with 84 guns (after Pgargon added 6 carronades to the quarterdeck), and the only 2nd Rate warship is the 94-Gun SotL model.
The CS/Trinity would fit the SotL role almost perfectly. The only slight problem is that she's not modern enough for the late 18th/ early 19th centuries, so the US can't use her.
Perhaps, but as Armstrong mentioned above, the US were much more keen on 74-gun 3rd Rates.
In fact, take a look at this very short list of all their ships of the line. There was only one 2nd Rate and one 1st Rate (as far as I can tell), and the rest were 74's.
Technically, that means we should give the US a repaint of either Bellona or Superbe, and make the 1st and 2nd Rates very rare.
I agree, a Bellona repaint would do nicely for now! I know the first rate is of course the Pennsylvania, but what is the second rate you are thinking of? The thing with the American ships of the line is that they built them with the same philosophy as their frigates; bigger stronger faster, and more powerful than their european counterparts, but fewer built overall. The American 74's mightve been closer to 80 gun european warships, and the later ones more like full out second rates, though they never had 3 covered decks like a traditional 2nd rate. so even the bellona is a tad small for an american 74, but shes the closest thing there is for now. I may make an american 74 at some point in the distant future from the plans of the frankilin and columbus named in that link(canceled in 1800) these plans were also used as the basis for the Independence, Washington, and later Columbus & Franklin. they are on my ftp if anone wants to take a look, gunports for about 86 guns i think. but anyways, that wont be for awhile.
I was referring to the Independence, which is stated as originally having 90 guns, which in European terms equals a 2nd Rate.
I think it's more like a 3rd Rate hull in design though, as you pointed out, and it would suffice to use the 84-gun Bellona for now.
Ah yea thats Wikipedia for you
she did probably mount around 90 guns, but was still called a 74. The '74s' Independence Washington, Columbus, and Franklin were all built to the same plan I think. Its like calling the constitution a 44 gun frigate when she really mounts 56, or the Surprise a 28 when she really mounts 42, except even more so. but thats besides the point right now, A Bellona reskin will do great until I get around to making an American 74 
I was beginning to wonder how valid the information was... they should at least have mentioned that she was classed as a 74.
Wikipedia is great most of the time, but sometimes things like this are questionable. :urgh
Anyway, making a proper 74 would certainly get Legendary_Spider excited. I know he wants to see more proper US ships.
Shame he never reads threads like these, though. :slap
Haha indeed, though it won't be for awhile yet. because superbe and bellona are already in game I am focusing on frigates and smaller ships. plus I want more experience before I take on a ship of the line!
I've got my current ship models folder cleaned up to a fair extent now; I'm uploading the main files so everybody can have a look at what I've done.
Once it's done uploading, please download it and go through what we've got left. Let me know any ships that still should be renamed in the code,
if there is any ships that we can still afford to drop (excessive RN_ reskins, I'm looking at you!) or if there's any ships that I removed that you'd rather see back.
It seems I went from 260 ships in my previous Beta 2 WIP installation to 208 in my cleaned up version. Lost over 50 ships. That should help, no?
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Actually that is not unexpected. I thought the attrition might get that high. Taking the axe to that many ships can be hard, but once you get started........
Yep. My file has finished uploading and can be found here: http://www.pyratesahoy.com/build/b14_b2_wip/All_Ships.exe
It contains only the main GM files for quick viewing with the GM Viewer. Note that on some ships, I replaced the stock textures with modified ones, but this is not included in my file.
However, if you've kept up with the discussion here, you should be able to tell which ships those are.
Once we've got our ship selection finalized, I'll get to cleaning up the ship textures folder, ensuring to keep only those that are actually used.
And I'll probably also change a LOT of the ships to use deck.tga instead of one of the many changed versions of those.
After all, Armada's latest work on that file is very nice indeed and should be shared with the other ships.
I remember we've got some custom deck textures for silver, bronze and black cannon colours, but I reckon we can just use Armada's new black colour.
After all, I don't think many people will be noticing the difference, while it does complicate things.
There's also a custom deck texture for British Royal Navy ships to have a very light-coloured deck. Do we want to keep that?
We will need to keep the custom US mast deck texture, as well as the cursed version.
Here's some thoughts of mine on the ships we've got left:
BarqueHeavy (Barqem_1) - Original AoP ship, not overly detailed - do we want to keep this?
Battleship3_44 - Do we want to keep this? Texture is vaguely US
Battleship4 - Awaiting Armada's files to adapt this texture to a Battleship1-based hull
Brigantina1 - Does this ship add any gameplay value? I do recall liking her many years ago when I played Build 12
BrigLight (LightBrig1) and RN_BrigLight (RN_LightBrig) - Original AoP ships, not overly detailed - do we want to keep these?
BrigRoyal (Brig_n1) - Based on a model found on a Russian folder, but in the style of the regular AoP ships with a custom texture by Yo Ho Ho. Keep?
Caravol1 - Should probably rename this folder to "Carrack". Original AoP ship, but it's one of the few old-type ships, so probably keep.
FastGalleon1 and FastGalleon2 - Same as Caravol1
FR_Sloop - Does anyone think this one adds a lot to the game? She does have storyline use as "Le Reve" in the Hornblower quest
FR_SuperiorWarship1 and FR_SuperiorWarship2 - We needed these for historical reasons if I recall, right?
FR_WarGalleon + NL_WarGalleon + PO_WarGalleon + RN_WarGalleon - Do we want to keep these models?
Galeon4 and GaleonWar - Do we want these to replace any of the stock game galleons or put them to nation-specific use? Spain perhaps?
HeavyLineship1 and HeavyLineship2 - Based on the stock game pinnace; do we want to keep these? We do have the similar Seven Provincien, which I think we should keep. #1 seems to have a Dutch colour scheme, so we can drop this. #2 looks more French; keep as FR_HeavyLineship?
HMS_Mordaunt - Pgargon's first ship, a modification of an existing ship. Should probably keep, but might be nice if she had a proper RN colour scheme
HMS_Nonsuch - Doesn't look much like a RN ship. Put to use as generic Ketch? Since we've already got a Ketch, should we name her LightKetch or HeavyKetch or something?
Hooker - Stock AoP model. Does she serve any particular purpose? Seems to have a French or Spanish colour scheme. Rename accordingly? For which country?
Lugger3 - Stock AoP model; again, do we want this for variety?
NL_ConvoiShip (Wappen von Hamburg) - We still need some sort of sensible type name. "Convoy Ship" sounds weird to me.
NL_FleutWar - Stock AoP ship. Do we want to keep this? I think we had her for Bartolomeu/Assassin storyline purposes, but now we've got the Derfflinger models that we could use instead
NL_LightFleut - Stock AoP ships; keep?
NL_Neptunus - Could do with having her paint scheme redone to have less black and look more Dutch
PiratHannah and US_Hannah - Same model, one with more guns. Do we want to keep both? And do we want to re-appropriate one to be a generic schooner rather than a nation-specific one? If so, rename her as "SchoonerArmed"?
PO_Warship - Not my favourite ship model, but probably keep on account of her being one of the few Portuguese ships we've got
RN_Brig vs. RN_Brig44 - Same hull model. Do we want to keep both? We've got custom HMS brig models already too. Alternatively, if we'd want to keep the Packet Brig (which I removed), maybe we can use the Brig44 texture for her? That would make her look like another sold RN ship
RN_Hoy - Did we not decide this paint scheme was going to be Portuguese? Or otherwise French?
RN_JamaicaShip - Another re-textured AoP ship. Not bad, but with the amount of RN ships we've got and the fact that she doesn't use an actual RN skin, do we want to keep this?
RN_Lineship - Not a brilliant model to begin with and with so many custom RN/HMS ships, do we want to keep this?
RN_Manowar - Does this qualify as a second rate? Will we eventually be wanting to drop her and the RN_SotL in favour of the Trinity?
RN_Sophie - Modified stock game model. No bad; keep?
RN_Warship1 + RN_Warship2 - Not a brilliant model to begin with and with so many custom RN/HMS ships, do we want to keep this?
Sloop3 - Stock AoP ship. Want to keep for variety? Green suggests Holland
SP_Warship - Not brilliant model, but fairly nice colour scheme that we might be able to adapt to other Spanish ships? Keep?
TartaneWar - Probably keep on account of it being the only tartane with cannons. On the other hand, a new custom large tartane model has recently been released that we could either add too or replace her with
US_Enterprise (schooner) - Doesn't have a specific US colour scheme, though she does have white stars on her stern. Use as generic SchoonerHeavy instead?
US_HeavyWarship - Worth keeping?
US_Lydia - Only Lydia we've got left. Keep until we've got a better US replacement
If anyone has any other comments on any of the ships, please do say!
RN_Sophie - Modified stock game model. No bad; keep?-could she replace a less detailed stock ship?
RN_Warship1 + RN_Warship2 - Not a brilliant model to begin with and with so many custom RN/HMS ships, do we want to keep this? .
RN_Lineship - Not a brilliant model to begin with and with so many custom RN/HMS ships, do we want to keep this?
i would say remove these three, better to see more bellonas, and with the centurion and st albans in hand...
US_HeavyWarship - Worth keeping? definately not, america never even had small ships of the line like this
US_Lydia - Only Lydia we've got left. Keep until we've got a better US replacement-maybe, the Revolutionnaire is a near perfect fit in size and armerment, and looks for the American Constellation class frigates,the USS Philadelphia, or the USS Cheasapeake.
PiratHannah and US_Hannah - Same model, one with more guns. Do we want to keep both? And do we want to re-appropriate one to be a generic schooner rather than a nation-specific one? If so, rename her as "SchoonerArmed"?
US_Enterprise (schooner) - Doesn't have a specific US colour scheme, though she does have white stars on her stern. Use as generic SchoonerHeavy instead?
I think these two could definately become generic. for the Hannah, maybe keep both versions, but one as SchoonerArmed, and the other with less guns as LightSchooner or something?
Interesting thought. She uses the stock game schooner hull, so we could see if we could put the schooner or the shnyava rigging on the RN_Sophie hull.
That way, those ships would get the additional detail, because right now none of them have any of the additional detail that was added to many ships already.
I think those ships are technically not bad, but we've just got so many of them...
Warship1 is the Fourth Rate
Warship2 is the Third Rate
Lineship... not sure what rate she is. Fifth Rate according to ships_init.c
Do we have equivalent RN/HMS ships as it is? Bellona is apparently a Third Rate, so she would serve to replace the Warship2. What about Fourth and Fifth Rates?
We don't have any of those models yet though, so I suppose we'll keep the US_Lydia for a while longer until we do. -
