PotC Build Mod Ship Cleanup

[Hylie Pistof]

@Seb: Yes! Yes! Yes! I just dl'ed them and will look at them soonest. The barquem1 fills a gap in the lineup and could use some help. I have passed it up because of the windows.

@ Pieter: I just happen to have both the fluytofwar34g and the caravol1 right now. After I posted last night I gave them a more critical look. The textures are low detail and the windows seem to be painted on, not modeled.

But! They fill gaps in the lineup. The only class 5 trading vessels are the Pinnace, the Carrack, and the Wicked Wench. Both the pinnace and the carrack could use a facelift. The fluyt and the galleon5 fill the same class 4 slot also along with the xebecAS and the Batavia. I would gladly sail the galleon5 if its textures were not so messed up. So I would be reluctant to lose the fluyt until a replacement comes along.

Now to look at Seb's goodies.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

See the opening post for the completed file. Some good catches on the part of Experienced Captain, which I fixed in the new edition.

When we release, I'll probably change a lot of the folder names. HMS and RN will be combined to become EN.
SP_BattleGalleon_Weathered will become either SP_BattleGalleon or maybe we should just make it SP_SanMartin, which is what she is.

I'm wondering what to do with the two totally different USS Enterprise ships.
Truth be told, while she IS a US ship, the USS Enterprise schooner version doesn't LOOK like one; at least to me.
As such, I wonder if we should use her as a generic schooner or not.

And what about the naming conventions for the two Surprise versions?
Maybe just make them EN_Surprise_Film and EN_Surprise_Real?

The various BattleFrigates are technically retextures of the USS Constitution.
Should we make them FR_Constitution or rename the US_Constitution to US_BattleFrigate or leave things as-is?

You've designated some perfectly good stock ships as 'potential drop', but personally I think we'd lose a lot of diversity in-game without many of them. Plus, many of them don't have a suitable replacement model. And there's no way you're taking my Battleship2 flagship- you'll have to kill me first!

I did that just because they're not new in any way, but since they're already part of the original game anyway,
I reckon it's best to keep them. However, ideally with custom and better textures rather than the dull, generic stock ones.
Basically, we don't need to keep the stock textures because they were always there, but if we like a certain one, we can still decide to keep that.
Otherwise, we can keep the ship, but apply one of the retextures to them and that way we save the space of the retexture.
We'll need to decide this on a case-by-case basis, but I do think we've got more battleships/corvettes/frigates than we need.

You forgot to give me credit for RN_SteamFrigate...

Very true. Snow White Sorrow only really did texture-work on the French version.
I adjusted the texture credit for the two other versions in the last version (see above).

RN_Warship, HMS_Surprise and Sophie1 are English; most certainly not French and US ships!

Good catch! I fixed that and some other similar mistakes in the latest file.

FR_SuperiorWarship1 just got a really nice new texture from Seb, and new details could easily be added

Is that a new texture from his pack? I didn't consider those files yet.
In my game, the SuperiorWarship1 is still Kazeite's original texture and SuperiorWarship2 is Seb's redder retexture.
Personally I like the redder version better and think that looks Frencher anyway, so was thinking we could keep only that one.
Why does France need two Superior Warships anyway?

- Frigate5_46 looks fine to me;

Indeed; I already changed that one to "3 - Potential Drop (Modified Stock Game Ships)".
The reason why I set her as 1 in the first place is because we now have SO many British custom models,
do we really need to keep so many British retextures as well? We literally have 40 British ships, which seems a bit excessive to me.

- NL_Battleship is a re-textured Battleship2, and again seems fine.

Although her stern is vaguely greenish, her colour scheme isn't as distinctively Dutch as the other NL ships are.
We'll surely end up keeping some battleship2 versions, but I think I'd rather keep the original Battleship2 and drop this one.

EDIT2: I noticed you said there's another texture for FrigateNKSup... which texture is that?

I was thinking of removing the Frigate 3 and making the FrigateNKSup use Damski's texture from that one instead.
The regular FrigateNKSup texture isn't very special, while the Frigate3 one seems to have more personality to me.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

First of all, let me say that none of my ship droppings are set in stone and everything is fully negotiable.

- NL_lineship2, again seems fine.

As with the NL_Battleship, although her stern is vaguely greenish, her colour scheme isn't as distinctively Dutch as the other NL ships are.
I do think we should limit the number of retextures of the same model that we use,
ideally to one good one per nation and maybe two generic ones or something.

- PO_Manowar has a really nice texture (plus we're struggling for Portuguese ships anyway)

She doesn't look very Portuguese to my untrained eye. But admittedly, we do need Portuguese ships and she does look nice.
For me, I'd like each ship to look somewhat distinct and when retextures are only the same with some colours changed in a non-nation-specific way,
I find myself a bit uninterested. So I was thinking that nation-specific ships that don't look so nation-specific should be removed, updated or made generic.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Note also that my comments of what to keep/drop are not based in any way on gameplay or historical value of the ships,
but purely on their distinct looks or lack thereof. So we can decide to keep "ugly" ships if needed for gameplay or historical purposes.
Then hopefully we can update or replace them with better versions later on,
but it is not the intention to sacrifice gameplay value or historical completeness.

The intention, as far as I'm concerned, is to decrease modpack size by removing ships that add little/nothing to the game
because they don't have a distinct look and/or don't have a specific gameplay or historical purpose.
Additionally, if we can decrease the amount of ship types in the game, it might be less confusing for players.
But that is of secondary concern.

@ Pieter: I just happen to have both the fluytofwar34g and the caravol1 right now. After I posted last night I gave them a more critical look. The textures are low detail and the windows seem to be painted on, not modeled.

I definitly like the Caravol model; it looks very Caravel-like and also very Medieval-like, so she's very good to use in the early periods.
I don't see us removing that one any time soon, especially not with Seb's updated cabin windows.

The Fleut of War, on the other hand, looks the same as the Fleut2 but with some cannons added, so I'd rather remove one or the other.
Actually, we COULD give the Fleut2 one of the other Fleut textures and keep the Fleut of War.
That way, at least she'd look more unique.

 

[Armada]

Erm... long story short:

• The proposed naming conventions look sensible to me. But I think we should keep the Constitution/BattleFrigate names as they are currently.
• We need to keep in mind that some of the stock textures DO look fairly nice, and I agree that there are, in some cases, too many re-textured models.
• Seb's new FR_SW1 texture is more historically accurate, but looks less 'French', game-wise, than FR_SW2, so we should probably keep both.
• 40 British ships?! Well considering the total number is over 200 ships, that's around a fifth, and there are 6 nations plus Pirates, right? So that does look unbalanced and I see your point.

• - NL_Battleship is a re-textured Battleship2, and again seems fine.

  Although her stern is vaguely greenish, her colour scheme isn't as distinctively Dutch as the other NL ships are. We'll surely end up keeping some battleship2 versions, but I think I'd rather keep the original Battleship2 and drop this one.

  If we drop NL_Battleship, that leaves... oh, only one Battleship2 texture. When you consider that Battleship1 has loads of re-textured versions, that's a bit unbalanced. I think that Battleship1 needs less, while Battleship2 needs perhaps one new texture.
• For FrigateNKSup, I'd agree with the different texture, but surely then she'd be pirate-exclusive, as Frigate3 has a very piratey feel, to me.

• I do think we should limit the number of retextures of the same model that we use, ideally to one good one per nation and maybe two generic ones or something.

  This is a good idea. Some ships out there seem lost in a sea of endless re-textures, and can give the game a confused atmosphere.

• So I was thinking that nation-specific ships that don't look so nation-specific should be removed, updated or made generic.

  Again, I agree here.

EDIT: One thing you may want to do is highlight all the reverse lighting ships in your list, by the way.

 

[Hylie Pistof]

Yes, nothing is set in stone yet and there is plenty of time. There are indeed too many of some ship types and not enough of other ship types. I am trying to point out where removing certain ships might leave a gap in the line up despite their dated models. With that in mind, after looking at your new list, it appears that 2 of 3 class 5 balanced ships, the schoonerxebec and fastmerchantman, are on the block.

Question: Were the xebecs used in the Caribbean?

 

[Armada]

Question: Were the xebecs used in the Caribbean?

Good point; I just checked that one, and apparently they were almost exclusive to the Mediterranean sea. :mm

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Now I know this is wishful thinking and it's not likely to happen, but I'd like it if each nation had approximately the same set of ships available, but in appropriate colour schemes. Exceptions can be made for one-nation-only ships. And then just a bunch of generic ships to complete the bunch of the more piratey players.

The proposed naming conventions look sensible to me. But I think we should keep the Constitution/BattleFrigate names as they are currently.

That might indeed be best. Any thoughts on the USS Enterprise though?

Seb's new FR_SW1 texture is more historically accurate, but looks less 'French', game-wise, than FR_SW2, so we should probably keep both.

Can do. I'll have to see what the new one looks like anyway.

If we drop NL_Battleship, that leaves... oh, only one Battleship2 texture. When you consider that Battleship1 has loads of re-textured versions, that's a bit unbalanced. I think that Battleship1 needs less, while Battleship2 needs perhaps one new texture.

True; the Battleship2 would get only one edition. We could keep the NL_Battleship and make her generic or maybe someone (Seb?) could make another, more distinct, texture? On the other hand, I don't object so much to having only one model based on the Battleship2. As long as it's not zero.

For FrigateNKSup, I'd agree with the different texture, but surely then she'd be pirate-exclusive, as Frigate3 has a very piratey feel, to me.

Agreed. I reckon "super" ships should be pirate-only anyway.
I think originally that ship was made to have the same stats as the Mefisto, but look different, because Nathan Kell did like the Mefisto's stats, but not her looks.

EDIT: One thing you may want to do is highlight all the reverse lighting ships in your list, by the way.

Should do, yes. Along with any other "work required" notes.
The reverse lighting ships are all of Pgargon's ones, right? Do you know any others?
Do you remember any other issues, such as walk patch and see-through windows (to be reconsidered after adding Seb's fixes for that).

I am trying to point out where removing certain ships might leave a gap in the line up despite their dated models.

Much appreciated! I am not in the least bit qualified to do that, so it's great that you're looking through them with your eyes as well!

With that in mind, after looking at your new list, it appears that 2 of 3 class 5 balanced ships, the schoonerxebec and fastmerchantman, are on the block.

That sounds like a good reason to keep them around for a while; at least until we've got something better.
I've now marked them as such on my copy of the file (not uploaded).

Be sure to post any other comments, questions and thoughts you might have!

 

[Hylie Pistof]

I got Seb's windows mod in place(methinks), and they all work in gmviewer except for the fleutt and galeon_h2, which I do not know what to do with, and the caravol1. Limited playtime saw the fastgalleon2 working properly and impressively in game. Me wants this in all ships!

The fastmerchantman has the reverse lighting bug as discovered by Experienced Captain.


PS: Saw a lightpinnace and it is good.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

The fastmerchantman has the reverse lighting bug as discovered by Experienced Captain.

Added to me list. Thanks for reminding me.

 

[Seb]

Just in case, I have reuploaded the caravol texture and the fleutt texture, just to be sure the transparent windows textures are available...

Just in case, as a modding material or to fill a gap, I've also uploaded the AOP Lugger, that is quite nice in it's class, it might be useful, all of that is on my folder on FTP (file "lugger 3")





I would probably be able to make a texture for battleship 2 but I will have to take back my work soon, so might not have it before a time I'm not able to evaluate :s (adult student life is sad for that, I don't get all the time I would >__< I had some on the textures I released on my disk for one year!)


EDIT : We might make a good use of this COAS model for the small units of the early periods... I can furnish it if needeed

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Those cabin-versions of the ships are really cool! However, I did run into some issues with them:

. The FastGalleon1 doesn't have transparent windows. If I replace the main GM file with yours, the windows don't open and I can't find a cabin.
If I also replace the texture, everything gets messed up somehow... :?
Comparing the FastGalleon1 texture to the FastGalleon2 one, it seems they're laid out completely different in a bizarre kind of way. :wacko:

. The new Lineship5 has got a different colour; I think the original AoP colour, so we lost the retexture there...
The same applies to Fleut5 (=Fleutt), Manowar3 and FastGalleon2, which also reverted to their original colour scheme.
Actually, I do like the Fleut5 original colour scheme.

There's still a bunch of other AoP/CoAS-based ships we've got; see the list in the opening post.
Are there cabin-versions for any of those too by any chance?

Just in case, as a modding material or to fill a gap, I've also uploaded the AOP Lugger, that is quite nice in it's class, it might be useful, all of that is on my folder on FTP (file "lugger 3")

The Lugger3 is already in Build 14 Beta 1. This one isn't supposed to have any transparent windows, right?

 

[Pieter Boelen]

. The FastGalleon1 doesn't have transparent windows. If I replace the main GM file with yours, the windows don't open and I can't find a cabin.
If I also replace the texture, everything gets messed up somehow... :?
Comparing the FastGalleon1 texture to the FastGalleon2 one, it seems they're laid out completely different in a bizarre kind of way. :wacko:

I think I got the Fast Galleons fixed up now. The FastGalleon1 has transparent windows now and no bugged texture.
Since the texture doesn't really allow for windows on the side, this one now only has the windows on the stern.

The FastGalleon2 and PiratFastGal both had messed up sterns because the whole texture had been shifted a couple of pixels;
it was like that in Build 14 Beta 1 too. I have now shifted it back and restored the missing parts.
This worked for everything except the pirate flag on the PiratFastGal's stern, which still shows some black edges around the wood.

I think this is the best I can get it up to at this time, though if anyone wants to fix the stern of the PiratFastGal, be my guest.
At least all Fast Galleons have retained their original Build 14 Beta 1 textures now.

 

[Seb]

I didn't notice the lugger 3 as I had already included it in my game ^^

About the list > I've no cabin for the Light Brigs

I've nocabin for the AOP Battleship, I got one, once, but I lost the texture going with it

The Brig_n1 is a custom model i've seen on seaward.ru, so we won't have any transparent windows on it...

I've nothing for the frigate 6

Nothing for the Mordaunt

Same for the Piratefastgal

Nothing for sloop 3

I Will have a look to see if I can find back those files on Seaward.ru, but we as you've seen we will loose some custom textures, the solution would be to duplicate the models with cabins, apply them the custom textures after having treated the windows on it with alpha texturing,

I will have a look on those two fastgalleons problem

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Thanks Seb; at the moment I'm looking into moving the alpha maps to the original Build 14 Beta 1 textures;
the Fast Galleons are already fixed for that and the other issues.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

On second thought...

The windowed Fleut5/Fleutt has a nicer texture in my eyes and the Build 14 Beta 1 version is again shifted a couple of pixels which could cause issues.
Maybe we should just use the windowed version for this and be done with it?

As for the Manowar3, unfortunately the transparent windows don't match up at all with the Build 14 Beta 1 texture's windows,
so this'd need a lot more work than just moving over the alpha map from the windowed version into the Build 14 Beta 1 version of the texture.
For the time being, I'm just reverting back to the Build 14 Beta 1 version for this one.
If anyone wants to redo the alpha maps for this one, we can always add the windowed version after all.

This is also the same model as the CoAS SoleilRoyal, which we considered to not be a very good model.
Maybe we should just remove this ship altogether? Though I admittedly DO like the Build 14 Beta 1 texture for this one.
Still, it's a British texture and we do have plenty of British ships anyway...

 

[Seb]

I didn't read your second post, It wasn't appearing, I was surprised because I didn't furnish any texture for the Piratfastgal, and FastGalleon2 was displaying correctly on my computer

 

[Pieter Boelen]

I was surprised because I didn't furnish any texture for the Piratfastgal

Indeed you didn't. But since it's the same model, I went messing around with her to put the cabin on there as well.

and FastGalleon2 was displaying correctly on my computer

Are you sure? Have a critical look at the stern of the Build 14 Beta 1 version. There's all sorts of black lines around the edges that shouldn't be there.
It's admittedly not a very obvious problem until you know what to look for and then it's VERY obvious.

 

[Seb]

Ok... I saw the lines ... XD

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Oh... in case you missed it, please see my previous post too: http://forum.piratesahoy.net/topic/16769-potc-build-mod-ship-cleanup/page__view__findpost__p__381364