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WIP Remus77 Christianus/Trinity

Sorry Hylie, but the textures have to do with old ships anymore. There are just more colorful images. Old ships had little color, natural wood color was priceless expensive.
 
Ships were little painted. Color was not paying. Too expensive. I see exaggerated colorfully designed ships.
 
Jan Marten said:
Ships were little painted. Color was not paying. Too expensive. I see exaggerated colorfully designed ships.
Click to expand...

I totally disagree. Cite your research. I have tons of historical research to back me up on the opposite point - including dozens of contemporary paintings, models and requisition records from navy yards for boiling vats, tallows, sulphur, dyes, broken glass, whale oil, etc to mix paint.

It was more expensive to build new ships every five years if they weren't painted (one or two years in the tropics and a ship was finished without proper treatment). The elements to create colors added to oils and tallows were commonly available and were not that expensive.

Even modern boats left unpainted a few years become worthless junk.

Where do you get these ideas from. What works/books/experts can you cite to back your view?

I've discussed this in the past and would love completely different textures for each era because the components and elements to make and add colors were different based on the region and the time period. REF: Post #16 http://www.piratesahoy.net/threads/new-look-for-yoho-s-convoy-ship.15004/

http://www.piratesahoy.net/threads/the-one-and-fifty-three.17704/page-4

MK
 
Architectura Navalis (1629) - Joseph Furttenbach .... the shelf life of a ship is given up to 40 years. (Note to 1600)

La construccion naval en Gipuzkoa XVI a XVIII - Spanish .... the shelf life of a ship is given up to 90 years in use. (Note to 1690)

.. depends on the type of wood that has been processed.

Maintenance
The maintenance of its ships was an ongoing problem of piracy. In tropical waters, seagrass growth on the hull, and the ship was slow and hard to maneuver.Ship bohr worms, which are not really worms, but a species of shellfish were a constant threat to wooden ships. Only part ihrers body is covered by a shell, the wormlike rest is up to 50 cm long. The white shell is covered with file-like protrusions that allow the animal prepared in the hull. It secretes a calcareous secretion that solidifies into a lime tube, in which it lives. A single shipworm can put in up to 5 million eggs, so it is not surprising that the worms on a long journey the hull literally riddled. Other parasites ate up the wooden planks, layer by layer. To prevent this, ships were often built with double planks, between which a layer of felt and tar came. Ships had to be keelhauled least every three months. This, she was taken into a bay and cleared the ship from complete, the guns were at the entrance of the pen temporarily in the event of an attack. Then we pulled the boat on the beach, tipped it on its side, scraped off the hull and filled the holes. Then smeared it up the entire fuselage with pitch and tallow. Usually happened that careen on uninhabited islands or in places where the natives were well disposed towards the pirates. Most indigenous peoples of the Caribbean already attracted the pirates before the settlers, who often tried to enslave them. They also appreciated being a mug Pirates rum well. Experiments to disguise the ship's hull with lead failed because the chemical reaction between the lead and the iron nails and tires ate away the metal. Pirates who could afford it were, their barks and brigantines expanding worm-resistant cedar wood in abundance in Bermuda.


People listen to the colors of the vessels
 
I am willing to believe ships at the time may have not been excessively painted for decoration purposes.
But for maintenance, some sort of paint/varnish/whatever must have been applied to make the ships last longer.
And they DID make them last long back in the days. Weren't there ships that lasted 100+ years??? :shock
 
Yes and no, Pieter. There are a lot of old reports, the talk of 80 to 90 years old ships. (Souls seller)
It is true that the average was between 25 and 60 years durability.

People, where the hell do I get her to color in 1650 to repaint my ship.
I go to the pirate supermarket and buy me a barrel red color.:facepalm
 
I think with powder, lead and an old machete because we will come out Pieter. :duel:
But becoming the barrel color red I do not get.

Ships in time were pulled ashore. Maximum oiled. Tallow and pitch, yes.
 
No Hylie, the age of the vessels in our mod is from 1580 to 1695. The ship date is younger.

I want to wake her. The textures of the new ships are not beautiful.
The older works are by far better and more beautiful.

Take the ancient works of Yohoho you to heart.
 
The foremast looks perfect. It might even be a good idea to leave the mizzen without stays'ls, or make the mizzen topmast stays'l triangular, if possible. The current mizzen topmast stays'l wouldn't be of much use because of the mutual blanketing effect (blocking the wind) it would cause on the main and mizzen tops'ls and its self.

Edit: It would have been more common to see a trapezoidal mizzen stays'l instead of a mizzen topmast stays'l with that kind of rig. It would be doused every time the mizzen gaff was brought through the center line of the vessel to avoid fouling. I think we could get away with including one on this vessel, since the gaff should rarely be centered.

Edit II: I've seen plenty of period artwork with both colorful paint and bare/varnished wood on a single vessel. From experience, bare, untreated wood doesn't do very well on the outside of vessels. It tends to discolor, dry out, and crack without constant maintenance. (Sanding or holystoning, in most cases.)
 
Hmm. Ok, I am very glad that you like most of this. :cheers
That mizzen staysl is problematic. I don't like the idea of tying a stay to the fighting top of the main mast. Without doing that a triangular topmast staysl looks silly. The front of that lateen is swinging back and forth across the deck and is usually pretty close to center, so I don't want to put anything down there either. It looks a little unbalanced without something back there though. Would dropping the bottom down to that big stay be too much?
 
I think you have a few options here.
You could drop the mizzen topmast stay down below the fighting tops and make the sail triangular. You were correct about bending a stay to the tops... they wouldn't have been able to take the strain from the stay, and most likely would have broken.
You could just add the sail in the way of the lateen. They had to deal with that kind of fouling back then, too. The gaff should never be perfectly centered, anyway.
Finally, you could eliminate the mizzen stays'ls and remove the lower stays'l on the fore mast.
Bringing the present sail down lower isn't really a practical option. The upper half of the sail would have all of its wind blocked by the mizzen tops'l, and the lower half would block a good quantity of wind that would otherwise be going to the main tops'l and mains'l. As it sits, there is no wind reaching it, since it'll be blocked by the mizzen tops'l on almost any tack.

Edit: The main topmast stay should end a little lower down, but still above the foremast fighting tops. That's some major nitpicking, and it probably isn't really worth fixing. (It should be looped around where the foremast and foretopmast double up, about one half to two thirds of the way up that segment.)

Edit II: Another option: Make the stays'l narrower and a little less tall. It might look funny due to its small size, but it will balance the rig.
 
Jan Marten said:
Architectura Navalis (1629) - Joseph Furttenbach .... the shelf life of a ship is given up to 40 years. (Note to 1600)

La construccion naval en Gipuzkoa XVI a XVIII - Spanish .... the shelf life of a ship is given up to 90 years in use. (Note to 1690)
Click to expand...

I own both of those great sources as well. I have no argument about the long lifespan of a vessel properly treated and refitted. The Jesus of Lubeck I write about in my story on San Juan de Ulloa http://www.piratesahoy.net/threads/debacle-at-san-juan-de-ulloa.17994/ was between 80 and a 100 years old when she fought in the ill fated action with Sir John Hawkins as her master. BTW she is mentioned in several existing contemporary sources as being QUITE colorful.

Neither of the sources you cite above say anything about the frequency of ships being/or not being painted with colors that often.

Your comment on the "pirate store" in the Caribbean is a little goofey. Most ships were not in the tropics for that long. They would do what they needed to do there and get back to Europe. If they needed to be repainted when they got to their home ports, they would be. I have no doubt that actual pirates used very dark mono-tone tar/pitch treatments on their hulls when they were basically native to the area they lurked/hunted in.

However, by the mid 17th century many ports boasted very advanced facilities that would have been more than capable of providing a complete refit - to include new paint - for those that weren't pirates. The pirates had to go to the pirate store....:monkeydance

By 1700, even Bermuda boasted amazing facilities for buccaneers. The harbor was noted to be full of aging and decrepit abandoned ships that were used by everyone that needed timber and parts - a kind of 17th century salvage/wrecking yard if you will. They were known to have better stores than Port Royale because the merchants were willing to pay more to the suppliers - not to mention the stores that were sold there from ill-gotten prizes.

I fully believe that the environment was VERY colorful - figuratively, historically, AND LITERALLY. xD

MK
 
It's worth noting that in the Rev. War and Napoleonic periods RN vessels weren't issued enough paint to entirely repaint their vessels, even during long commissions spent at sea. One captain, probably in protest, even wrote to the Admiralty asking them whether they wanted him to paint the port or starboard side of his ship.

It was also customary (at least during the 1790's on to the 1930's) to carry paint with a vessel and repaint it, or at leas get it looking nice again, before making port.
 
That's convenient... Thagarr posted this image that can help us shape the fore topmast stays'l.
QAR_1.jpg
It should go out to the end of the bowsprit, and not the sprit topmast. Then we'd have to make it as big as possible without messing with the fores'l or fore tops'l.
 
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